dawn.p
Sep 4, 2020, 2:59:49 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
The Anza Borrego State Park has instituted a temporary fire ban in their campgrounds. Seems wise. Does anyone know if the campgrounds up here are doing this too? Maybe Anthony can comment as to why they would remain allowed if no ban is in place.
image0.jpeg
sheila
Sep 4, 2020, 3:33:22 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Saw one in fire pit 1 1/2 weeks ago. When we had some wind. I asked them nicely to please put out their fire. It was 93 degrees out around 4 o’clock they had it going to chase bugs away. I have tried many times in the past to address this with Riverside Fire as they are the ones responsible. They just say well it’s legal. Our Idy Fire has tried also In the past with no results. Just a FYI.
Sent from my iPhoneSheila Zacker Idyllwild RealtyBRE#01385817C: 951.675.0715www.sheilazacker.com
Miller, Anthony
Sep 4, 2020, 4:58:39 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Currently fires are permitted this weekend in developed campgrounds up here (including State Park) and I’m sure in other private developed campgrounds as well ( I have not yet called them but most of the time they are among last to suspend fires.)
We are preparing for the Santa Ana wind event for Tuesday/Wednesday and suspending campfires effective Monday 9-7-2020 in anticipation of Santa Ana winds after this heat event hits us this weekend. For the duration I am not yet sure, it comes down to whether or not other developed campgrounds shut down as well, continued forecast of high winds/Santa Ana wind events, and other outlooks when it comes to weather.
I have instructed staff to advise guests of high fire danger (Keep fires LOW , attended, and dead-out extinguished when finished) and there are Ranger Patrols through the weekend late into each evening to monitor and patrol in the campground.
If you are walking through the campground our new camp hosts are thrilled to join the team and get to know the community they are happy to help if anyone observes issues when staff are not present.
Thank you,
dawn.p
Sep 4, 2020, 6:41:23 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Thank you, Anthony. I’m glad you have a plan in the event of high winds.
Dawn Papaila
Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
Sep 5, 2020, 9:22:53 AMto Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
Anthony-
The NWS issued a Red Flag warning for this weekend a few days ago- it is currently in effect:
Besides very high temperatures, the forecast for this weekend includes gusting winds up to 25 mph. These are prime conditions for wildfire, and the well documented fact is that literally 95% of such wildfires are related to human activities.
It is beyond me as to why anyone would choose to have a campfire in these kinds of conditions, but no doubt the Park will be full of such campers this weekend. It would be much more confidence inspiring to see Riv Co Parks (and the leadership of Idyllwild County Park, in particular) make decisions on campfires that were more in tune with local conditions, especially in areas where large numbers of homes border these parks.
_________________________________
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888.522.9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
Joe Chiosso
Sep 5, 2020, 9:44:45 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
another incorrect statement by county parks, Thousands Trails has not allowed wood burning fires for sometime now hard to sit here and read all the false information given by this department. They have more excuses then answers.
—————————————–
Miller, Anthony
Sep 5, 2020, 10:37:50 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Just to update everyone. . .as of this evening all campers at Idyllwild Regional Park have been notified of fire restrictions effective immediately and all wood burning/charcoal fires have been extinguished. We continued communicating with our partners as the weekend progressed and decided to push our implementation of fire restrictions forward a couple days.
Please notify park staff or hosts and IFPD if you see/smell campfires so we can address them swiftly. Thank you,
John Jacobs
Sep 6, 2020, 9:17:58 AMto Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
Anthony-
That is good to hear. Communicating this restriction to the masses of Labor Day weekend campers who feel their camping experience won’t be complete without a campfire (despite temperatures close to 100 degrees) is not an enviable task. But it is good to know that the leadership of this Park is able to look at current conditions and take appropriate action in a timely manner.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
dawn.p
Sep 6, 2020, 10:43:23 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Thank you so much. So appreciated.
Dawn Papaila
sheila
Sep 6, 2020, 2:48:51 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Hi John
I just had a couple who came into my Real Estate office at 2:30 today Sunday 9/6/20 I asked if they are having fires at the County Park. YES!! They said no one told us any different and there are no signs. The lady at the desk said nothing. I asked them nicely please do not have a fire going. I thought that was communicated to All the folks Staying at the camp sites.Thanks for looking into this
Miller, Anthony
Sep 6, 2020, 3:03:04 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Signs were posted first thing this morning and staff have continuously patrolled since this morning. I made announcements site by site and over loudspeaker last night and am continuing to patrol for those who come to the parks with their eyes and ears closed.
Sent from my iPhone
bossyb57
Sep 7, 2020, 5:59:17 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
This was just on news..All mountains throughout California are closed effective 5 pm today…No campers, No Day Use until further notice…San Bernardino National Forest was on.list
John Jacobs
Sep 7, 2020, 7:28:20 PMto Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
This closure includes San Bernardino National Forest, and San Jacinto State Park:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sbnf/news-events/?cid=FSEPRD799192
https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=636
Sounds like a good call. Anthony, what’s the status of Idyllwild County Park?
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
dawn.p
Sep 7, 2020, 10:07:03 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
There are a handful of campers in there tonight. There are a few signs saying no fires but none at the kiosk that stood out to me. There are fire pits that have wood stacked around them. I don’t understand why that wood wasn’t gathered.
Dawn
John Jacobs
Sep 8, 2020, 4:09:09 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Anthony-
As of a few minutes ago, the park is very much open- there are about 9-10 occupied campsites. Given the closure of the National Forest and State Park, what is the County’s plan for this Park?
Your recent text to Bobbi stated that ‘no wood or charcoal fires are permitted’. There is a group using a charcoal BBQ in one of those occupied campsites right now.
And there is no-one attending the entry kiosk.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
sheila
Sep 8, 2020, 4:27:23 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
I just called the Fire Dept. They will do a run later and I will follow up with Washington’s office tomorrow. Sorry, there are no excuses on this one. Sheila Zacker
Idyllwild Realty
BRE#01385817
C: 951.675.0715
O: 951.659.3425 Ext. 15
www.sheilazacker.com
John Jacobs
Sep 8, 2020, 6:13:06 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
This is the site that had a burning charcoal BBQ around 4 pm today.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001www.pinecrestwatch.org
John Jacobs
Sep 9, 2020, 5:16:32 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Anthony-
With another weekend quickly upcoming, your comments on the status of camping in the Park would be appreciated.
10 more California National Forests closed today- this means all 18 NF’s in the state are closed due to wildfire risk.
https://www.redding.com/story/news/2020/09/08/california-wildfires-close-lassen-national-forests-air-quality/5749990002/
San Jacinto State Park is only allowing camping by those who held a reservation *prior* to Monday’s closure announcement. They are not allowing any walk-in camping at all (this is apparently the policy in at least all Inland Empire State Park facilities). No campfires are allowed- only propane stoves.
A pass through of the Park this afternoon showed a similar number of campers as yesterday- no-one at the kiosk. There was a group at the far end of the campground with an open flame ‘tiki torch’ style burner on their picnic table.
RivCo Parks typically looks to the National Forest and State Park for cues as to how to manage fire and camping use…where is RivCo Parks at this particularly high risk time?
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
Miller, Anthony
Sep 10, 2020, 3:37:08 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Whitaker, Dayna, McLain, Dustin
John,
We are open but fire restrictions are in effect (no wood/charcoal fires) Our staff is working in the park morning and myself into very late evening each day over the weekend for supervision and camp hosts are keeping their eyes and ears open as they live on site after staff go home.
What the State Park is doing sounds quite wise, we are still limiting capacity at this time due to COVID and are essentially sold out, with exception to cases where people show up with no other place to go (and who are understanding of fire restriction). Generally I have had 2-3 per weekend and I do not plan to exceed that pattern with the additional fire danger especially if we experience an increase in demand.
I spoke with site 33 with the charcoal grill and turns out he’d been spoken to by our hosts momentarily after being reported and I asked him to put it away entirely.
The site in the back with the candle was burning citronella candle for insect repellent and had all their propane equipment as well as a fire extinguisher staged, they were quite prepared overall and I felt they were behaving.
I really appreciated talking with you today thank you for stopping by and I will pass along your sentiments (and forward message) to my superiors.
John Jacobs
Sep 10, 2020, 4:16:22 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Miller, Anthony, Whitaker, Dayna, McLain, Dustin, jcomerchero@rivco.org
Anthony-
It is quite bewildering that during this time of the highest fire activity in the state of California…at a time when all 18 National Forests (which obviously includes the San Jacinto Ranger District of the SBNF) have closed to any kind of activity (camping, hiking, climbing, boating, etc.)…and the California State Park system has severely limited access…
…that Riverside County Parks is essentially continuing operations with only typical fire restrictions, and allowing complete access with only slight modification. You have stated in the past that RivCo Parks looks to other land managers as guidance towards Park policies. At this time, the two largest recreational land managers in the state have recognized the extreme risks, and have acted accordingly. RivCo Parks is only following those policies in the vaguest sense, in this case.
At the same time, supervision in the Park will continue to occur at a similar, problematic low level, with self-check in- any such COVID restrictions on campsites would be dependent on Park personnel monitoring these sites. And to complicate matters, as long as the State Park campground is severely limited, and all of the National Forest campgrounds are closed, people will likely be pouring towards County Park as an alternative.
While this certainly has great revenue potential for the Park (perhaps that’s the intent here), it will likely result in high concentrations of campers at a time when no other land manager would take the same direction.
As much as your diligence is appreciated in dealing with issues like this, the manner in which RivCo Parks has responded to these extreme fire risks, and the policies implemented earlier this year as COVID-19 swept the County and State, only seem to demonstrate clearly that RIvCo Parks prioritizes revenue potentials of their Parks far above public safety and property protection.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
John Jacobs
Sep 14, 2020, 9:59:24 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Miller, Anthony, Whitaker, Dayna, McLain, Dustin, jcomerchero@rivco.org
Anthony-
In our conversation last Thursday, you stated that in spite of the closure of all 18 National Forests in the state to any kind of activities, and the fact the State Park has closed access to hiking and limited camping only to those who had registered sites prior to the announcement of the closure (Monday, September 7), that Idyllwild County Park would remain open to camping. You stated that there would be no restrictions on site availability (such as the State Park’s policy), except that campsites would be limited to ensure appropriate COVID spacing, and that fire restrictions would allow propane stoves only (no BBQ’s or wood fires).
A visit to the campground at 7:10 pm last Saturday, September 12 found the disturbing reality: the campground was nearly completely full, with large numbers of campers closely spaced together, and only a very few number of unoccupied spaces. Equally disturbing, two open fires were observed (campsites 58 & 83). The entry kiosk was dark and unattended- there were no RivCo Park employees observed anywhere in the Park.
Anthony, what level of reality is necessary for RivCo Park leadership to see that there policies and leadership are misdirected? There are historic levels of fire activity throughout the state at this time, and your land manager peers are responding to this quite dramatically- yet RivCo Parks goes on with little change (in fact, likely taking economic advantage of being the only state or county camping option). Idyllwild has had two major fires since 2013 that have evacuated the entire town– the risk is beyond obvious to all- what does it take for RivCo Parks to acknowledge and act on this?
Your professionalism in tone has been appreciated, but the content of your communication is effectively stonewalling and status quo. Given what transpired over the weekend vs. what you communicated to me in person, your integrity as a leader is sorely in question.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
dianedarcy7
Sep 14, 2020, 10:14:12 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Did you alert Idyllwild Fire about campfires in park? If so, what was their response?
dawn.p.
Sep 14, 2020, 10:34:21 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Wow. Two open fires. That’s likely because it got cold. The fact is the County Park is not adequately staffed.
If we don’t hear any response from Anthony on this by this evening, I will share this on FB.
Dawn Papaila
stacyoates
Sep 14, 2020, 10:51:38 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
We went through the park Friday evening after dark and saw what looked like two open fires. We noted the campsite numbers and spoke with Anthony, who was manning the booth, on our way out. He was aware of both fires and had already spoken with the occupants. Both instances turned out to be propane fire pits. They both looked very realistic so we weren’t sure. Hopefully that’s what was seen Saturday as well but of course that may be wishful thinking.
Stacy
sheila
Sep 14, 2020, 11:44:42 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Miller, Anthony, Whitaker, Dayna, McLain, Dustin, jcomerchero@rivco.orgH
All,I spoke with Washington’s sec. She was shocked and is looking into the matter and will get back to me.
John Jacobs
Sep 14, 2020, 12:45:34 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, sheila, Miller, Anthony, Whitaker, Dayna, McLain, Dustin, jcomerchero@rivco.org
No, I did not report this to Idyllwild Fire Dept.- I did, however, immediately notify Larry, the campground host in his trailer. Reporting to IFPD should definitely be part of the response to such events, though.
As has been observed for many years (and during the recent heat event), campers will have fires no matter what the conditions are like. The bigger issue here is that Park supervision has been lacking for many years now- I’m honestly less concerned about the two fire sources I observed (even if they were truly open fires), than the fact that during a time when fire risk is high, and the campground is completely full on a busy Saturday night, there is no observable supervision in this Park. As grateful as we should be for Larry as the new Campground Host, he is not a formal Park employee, and it is unrealistic to expect him to constantly monitor 80+ campsites on a busy Saturday night, when high supervision should be priority for RivCo Parks.
I am equally disturbed by the complete disconnect between what was told to me (in person, by Anthony) regarding how campground capacity would be managed over the weekend, and what actually transpired. There is a clear pattern of behavior on the part of RivCo Parks to remain open, regardless of conditions, whether it be a pandemic or extreme fire risk. This is ‘leadership’ that is clearly based on a set of priorities that just doesn’t make any good sense.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
sheila
Sep 14, 2020, 1:16:08 PMto John Jacobs, pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Miller, Anthony, Whitaker, Dayna, McLain, Dustin, jcomerchero@rivco.org
I did and they have been going every evening. The bummer is that is Riverside county
Sent from my iPhoneSheila Zacker Idyllwild
John Jacobs
Sep 14, 2020, 2:40:15 PMto Neighborhood Watch, Anthony Miller, Dustin McClain, dwhitaker@rivco.org, jcomerchero@rivco.org
My observation was on Saturday evening, and from a vehicle (not wanting to intrude or confront the site inhabitant). A walk around this afternoon clarified that the sites were actually 59 & 88, and there was no sign of recent wood fire activity in the fire rings of those sites. (Campground host Larry made a laborious and appreciated effort at cleaning all of the fire rings last week before this busy weekend, so it is easy to observe recent use.)
However, today’s walk around did find sign of recent wood fire activity in sites 38 & 73 (respectively, in these pictures):
(Since all of these fire rings were cleaned last week, this is clearly recent activity.)
It should not be necessary for any resident, community member, or the Idyllwild Fire Dept. to monitor Park activities, especially during high risk conditions- this is the primary responsibility of RivCo Parks. Above all, the issue here is one of inadequate Park supervision.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001www.pinecrestwatch.org
Miller, Anthony
Sep 15, 2020, 1:51:35 PMto Neighborhood Watch, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, jcomerchero@rivco.org
Effective yesterday, we have suspended further the use of propane fire rings for recreational purposes (It may be used for cooking then it must be shut down). That should limit some confusion going forward. It is posted on our website clearly and another round of notifications to all reserved campers went out yesterday and today.
During my patrols over the weekend I spoke with 7 propane fire rings to verify they were propane throughout the campground, and did not see or smell campfires in either site 73 or 38 both sites were dark. I patrolled approximately hourly after closing up the booth between report writing and restroom cleaning for the evening as most were settled into their sites until 1030pm. We still have approximately 20 sites held/blocked to limit our capacity.
I have taken additional steps to make the fire rings less inviting by removing the debris you reported and red-taped the fire rings to further indicate they are not to be used.
davahunt
Sep 16, 2020, 7:29:39 AMto Neighborhood Watch, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, jcomerchero@rivco.org, C.Washington@rcbos.org
It sure would be nice if RIVCO would follow the example of the USDA/USFS Forest Closure and just close the park! Idyllwild does not want fire spread OR COVID spread! PLEASE respect our mountain community! Thanks 🙂
lannswanson
Sep 16, 2020, 7:40:14 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
It would really be NICE for people to work together on this , all I am reading is very negative to the park ranger he is trying everything he can to make it safe and yet we have people there being rude and not understanding that is not his call …. Sometimes people in Idyllwild want to cut off the whole town from everybody visiting and that isn’t the way Idlewild goes it is not for this chosen few there is for everybody to come visit if you don’t like it you should stay home in your house and make sure you don’t get the virus I live up the street and I don’t see your problem I see the problem of you being rude to everybody the man is trying to do whatever he can you can’t stop everybody from doing anything with the attitude that you guys have it’s kind of sad really after 35 years in Idyllwild I’m kind of disgusted at the shit that people are coming out of their mouth on this website you should think before you decide you want everything done for you !!!!!
John Jacobs
Sep 16, 2020, 9:15:46 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, jcomerchero@rivco.org, C.Washington@rcbos.org, kylabrown@rivco.org
Anthony, Dayna, Dustin & Kyla-
The ongoing issue here is inadequate supervision of Idyllwild County Park. The more imminent issue is related to extreme fire risk, and RivCo Park’s lack of consistency with other land managers in the area.
Anthony, in our discussion last week, you described how campsites would be limited to ensure adequate spacing and address COVID-related distancing. In fact, there were very few empty campsites observed last Saturday night- perhaps 5-6 observable from the road (in a campground of 80+ sites)- and there was a high density of campers in close proximity to each other. Setting the question of COVID distancing aside, since the kiosk is only staffed during specific hours, any kind of walk-in campsite reservation that occurs when no-one is at the entry kiosk will choose any campsite that they wish, since no-one is regulating availability. This is an example of inadequate supervision.
Kyla, statements such as ‘RivCo Parks staffing levels are at full levels’ is a meaningless statement that does not address the issue: whatever RivCo Parks current staffing levels happen to be, they have been inadequate for a number of years. If the Park is going to choose to remain open during this time of extreme fire risk, then regular, consistent supervision should be taking place- not simply during ‘peak times’ at the entry kiosk. The new campground host is a welcome addition, however it is unrealistic to expect them to monitor 80+ campsites at all times.
There was clear evidence (observed Monday, September 14) of open fires in campsites 38 & 73- the fact that all fire pits had been diligently cleaned just prior to the weekend demonstrates this clearly:
More disturbing, there has been recent evidence of improvised fire rings completely outside of the fire pits- this evidence was found on August 24:
Inadequate Park supervision has certainly been a factor in these incidences.
My personal view is that the Park should be consistent with other land managers in the area, and close camping access to the Park until the risk of fire subsides. I do believe that hiking or day use in the area is reasonable- contrary to the National Forest and State Park, where hiking can involve backcountry camping, the hiking in Idyllwild County Park is day use only, and the public does need access to the recreational activities that the Park has to offer. This seems like a reasonable compromise between risk management and public access.
Since RivCo Parks seems quite resolved at this time to continue to allow camping, then improved supervision needs to take place. Better signage should be in place that reinforces the current fire restrictions-not just the single sign at the entry kiosk, but the same type of large signage placed in several locations along the campground road. (The much smaller, yellow placards are inadequate.) Steps to make fire pits or BBQ’s unusable (such as red taping, as Anthony has recently done) must be implemented. Of course, the RivCo Parks website should clearly state current fire restrictions.
It is a well documented fact that well over 90% of wildland fires are human-caused. After two major fires since 2013 that have resulted in a complete evacuation of Idyllwild, and current fire activity in California (and western states, in general) at historically extreme levels that has resulted in a complete shutdown of State and Federal lands, it should not be surprising that there is great concern amongst local residents of this community regarding the activities and policies of Idyllwild County Park.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
dawn.p…@gmail.com
Sep 16, 2020, 9:24:57 AMto Neighborhood Watch Notifications
HI Laura,
We are all neighbors and we are trying to work together nicely. We have long supported Anthony and we understand that he has a chain of command. We speak to Anthony in-person and we communicate with Kyla Brown, his boss. We are not attacking Anthony. Our concern is for the safety of the community. And you’re right. We will not agree on all issues. Closing the down the campsites in the park due to concerns about fire may not be important to everyone. Obviously, others are afraid of what could happen given that there are very few employees and camp hosts. The lack of staffing is not Anthony’s fault but it is a fact.
I do not recall seeing any personal attacks here. Nor do I recall seeing the use of profanity. Let’s not start that now. We’ve been exposed to too much of that on social media channels.
Again, we all support County Park and we are friendly with Anthony. But we have a right to express concerns about safety.
Thank you,
Dawn Papaila
John Jacobs
Sep 19, 2020, 7:49:01 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
(The following reply is from Kyla Brown, General Manager for RivCo Parks- this reply is dated 9/16/20)
***
Mr. Jacobs,
Thank you for sharing your concerns again. I assure you, we take public safety, including the risk of fire very seriously. I would like to assure you that we communicate with State Parks as well as regional partners when adjusting our operations. You noted in your email that we are not consistent with USFS or State Parks. Here are the current restrictions/uses:
- USFS – Emergency Forest Closure through September 21, 2020 . This prohibits access to USFS land, including trails, without a permit of exemption.
- CA State Parks – Wood-burning fires are prohibited, gas/propane fires are still permitted. Both Idyllwild and Stone Creek Campgrounds are still open for camping, including new reservations. State Park and National Forest trails are closed.
- Idyllwild Park – All fires are prohibited with the exception of propane cook stoves for heating food. This is more restrictive than State Parks. Camping is permitted (consistent with State Parks) and we have blocked out about 25% of our campsites (20 sites) to help limit use.
Here are the steps we have taken to help communicate restrictions:
- Signage is placed at the kiosk and throughout the park:
- Restrictions are communicated on our website: https://www.rivcoparks.org/idyllwild-regional-park, and campers receive information about current restrictions when they make their reservation. We have sent reminder emails to all campers prior to the weekend to help ensure the information is received.
- Upon check-in, campers are reminded about restrictions.
- Barbeques and fire pits have been marked with red tape to help communicate they may not be used:
- Coverage of the campground by staff and caretakers takes place actively between 8am and 10:30pm during peak days of use. On non-peak days, coverage is roughly 8am to 5 pm. Any time illegal fires are spotted, guests are approached and reminded of the rules and fires are extinguished.
- Repeat offenders (guests who repeatedly ignore fire restrictions or willfully create an unsafe fire/situation) will be asked to leave and banned from the park for future reservations/visits.
As you have pointed out, some people go out of their way to ignore restrictions. So far, while there have been a few instances of non-compliance (mostly people unaware or not realizing they cannot use wood-fires to cook their food), guests have responded quickly and are understanding of the restrictions.
I hope this demonstrates our commitment to keeping people safe while allowing use of the park for outdoor recreation. We appreciate residents and park visitors reporting any unsafe conditions and will continue to address them as they arise. Please feel free to communicate directly to me, Chief McLain, or Ranger Supervisor Miller should you have additional concerns.
Respectfully,
Kyla Brown, CPRE
GENERAL MANAGER | PARKS DIRECTOR
www.RivCoParks.org | Facebook | Twitter | Upcoming Events
John Jacobs
Sep 21, 2020, 10:05:33 AMto kylabrown@rivco.org, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch, Dustin McClain, Whitaker, Dayna, Anthony Miller, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle
Kyla-
Thank you for the reply. You may have learned of the wildland fire that occurred near Idyllwild along Highway 74 last Saturday afternoon- though it was gratefully quickly extinguished, it provides yet another direct example of the extreme fire risk that exists in these mountains, and the great concern local residents have around any kind of fire source.
Consistency with other local land managers
In spite of the aspects you have cited (related to fire policies), there are significant inconsistencies between RivCo Parks management of County Park, vs. the State Park and National Forest. Most dramatically, the National Forest is closed to all activities, including camping.All trails in the San Jacinto State Park are closed, and camping is only allowed with a reservation made at least 48 hours in advance. Signage at the entrance to San Jacinto State Park on Friday, September 18:
Idyllwild County Park, however, remains open to all activities, with no advance reservation required. All considered, Idyllwild County Parks policies easily hold the least conservative policies of the public land managers in Idyllwild.
Signage
This sign is now located at the entry kiosk to Idyllwild County Park:
It was relocated there about a week ago by Larry, the campground host. Prior to this it was in a less prominent location. The smaller yellow placards located at several other locations along the campground road reinforce this message far less effectively. This large white sign should be present in at least 1-2 other locations along the Park road.
Fire pit taping
This is a good, temporary solution that only occurred a few days ago after my discussion with Anthony on September 10. Given the persistence of many people to have fires no matter what the Park’s policies might be, and the fact that supervision is not consistent through the week, a better solution would be steel lids that completely cover the fire pit and make it unusable. This would be a far better use of RivCo Parks resources, as opposed to installing barbeques in the midst of a dry, grassy meadow. (See: https://pinecrestwatch.org/idy-county-park-meadow-bbqs/ ) As described below, in numerous locations the taping is already falling away or has been damaged by camp users.
Park Supervision
As has been repeatedly observed over the years, supervision of the Park is a persistent problem. Over the weekends since the USFS & State Parks announced their restrictions (September 8), weekend supervision in Idyllwild County Park occurred in the manner you described- ranger vehicles were observed driving through the campground around 10 pm on Friday night (9/18/20), and 8 pm on Saturday night (9/19/20)- the entry kiosk at this time was unattended. No open flame fire sources were observed on Friday night, however an open flame source (not sure of the type) was observed in campsite 81 on Saturday night. On Sunday (9/20/20), 2 pm, no signs of recent fire activity was observed in any of the fire pits, however the taping is starting to fall off of many of them.
While it has been good to see this level of supervision during the high use periods of the last two weekends, there should be high levels of supervision on all days of the week. Since all other public land camping options in the Idyllwild area are either closed or very limited, Idyllwild County Parks open door policy means it catches all of the overflow, at all days of the week (it’s easy to conclude this is part of RIvCo Parks strategy in their policies). Besides the need for better Park supervision during current high risk fire conditions, there have been numerous past incidences in the Park that would benefit from improved supervision. (Ex: https://pinecrestwatch.org/idy-county-park-trespassing-fire-risks/ )
Limitations on campsite usage
Of the 96 sites at Idyllwild County Park, on Saturday night (9/19/20), approximately 26 sites were observed to be empty- indeed, this works out to be about 25% of the total capacity of the Park. Past dialogues with RivCo Park management have pointed out this policy is related to enhancing social distancing for COVID purposes. If this is the case, then more effort needs to be invested in ensuring better spacing. Almost all of the observed empty sites were in sequential clusters, with occupied campsites also in clusters. In particular, campsites 68-72 and 84-96 were all filled, with very high concentrations of people. (The level of impact from loud people, music, laser projectors into the trees, etc. was extremely high- and these sites immediately border the Royal Pines trailer park, with full time residents. On Sunday afternoon, a significant amount of trash was observed throughout the campground, including food wrappers, balloons, water bottles, juice bags, dog waste bags, etc. This kind of impact to the campground environment and local residents is a longstanding problem, but outside of the scope of the fire risks that are currently most imminent.) An example of trash found near just below the restrooms, near campsite 43:
It is a clear, inarguable fact that 90%+ of all wildland fires occur due to human-related activities- all it takes is one person…one instance…of poor judgement or mal intent to create massive destruction of lives and property. This past weekend provided yet another example of this, along with the Cranston Fire (2018) and Mountain Fire (2013). RIvCo Park management needs to continue to step up their efforts to mitigate these risks through improved supervision of Idyllwild County Park, and reconsider the priority of public safety over recreation revenues.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
John Jacobs
Oct 2, 2020, 11:40:36 AMto kylabrown@rivco.org, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch, Dustin McClain, Whitaker, Dayna, Anthony Miller, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle
Kyla-
As of today, San Jacinto State Park continues to maintain closure of all trails- no walk-in camping is allowed (24 hour registration is required). All 18 National Forests in the State remain closed to *all* activities, including camping of any kind. We have had at least one National Weather Service Red Flag fire warning in the last week, and Santa Ana season is upon us. On Saturday, September 19, there was a wildland fire related to human activity on Highway 74, just west of Mountain Center.
On Saturday, August 15, a resident who lives immediately adjacent to Idyllwild County Park observed a wedding couple and their photographers taking pictures along the dirt road on the NW side of the meadow in County Park- they were using some kind of smoke generating device. Here is the Facebook post describing this incident:
The recent El Dorado Fire has burned over 22,000 acres, destroyed 10 structures and 4 homes, resulted in the evacuation of hundreds, and most tragically, cost the life of a firefighter from Big Bear. The point of origin of this fire was El Dorado Ranch Park, during a celebration by Park users (the infamous ‘gender reveal pyrotechnic device’). The parallels and potential for a similar event here at Idyllwild County Park are quite noteworthy, don’t you think?
The entire western US and all of the state of California is currently in the midst of the most extreme fire behavior ever observed- yet RivCo Parks policies remain the least restrictive of all public land managers, and the longstanding issue of inadequate supervision also remains.
Can you provide a rationale as to why RivCo Parks believes their current policies are reasonable, even though they do conflict with other public land managers in many regards?
Whatever staffing levels RivCo Parks is currently maintaining, if their policies intend to provide continued access to the public during a period of extreme risk, then increased supervision…not status quo…is quite appropriate. Can you explain why these supervision levels do not appear to have changed substantially from the period prior to this extreme fire risk?
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
John Jacobs
Oct 7, 2020, 9:10:43 AMto kylabrown@rivco.org, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch, Dustin McClain, Whitaker, Dayna, Anthony Miller, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle
Kyla-
A reply to the questions I posed in my previous email from you or any other member of the RivCo Parks Executive Team would be appreciated.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
John Jacobs
Oct 7, 2020, 9:45:39 AMto Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch(Kyla Brown’s reply:)
Brown, Kyla wrote on 10/7/20 9:36 AM:
Mr. Jacobs,
I am aware of the August 15 incident which Supervising Ranger Miller encountered that day as well. He engaged with the offending party and also educated them about the restrictions which were posted in the park. The group apologized and left. The park has not had any similar incidents since then.
In your message below, you assert we remain the least restrictive agency, yet we have imposed more stringent bans for fires, including not allowing propane fire pits. Our entire team of staff and volunteers, most of whom live on the mountain, take the threat of fire seriously. As you have noted, the red flag conditions continue. We have initiated the hiring process for a ranger to assist with evening patrols and provide additional on-site coverage of the mountain parks. This will be a temporary position and the heightened fire season warrants the additional help.
We appreciate the community keeping their eyes on the park and reporting any activities that pose concerns so that we may address them if we have not done so already.
Respectfully,
Kyla Brown, CPRE
GENERAL MANAGER | PARKS DIRECTOR
www.RivCoParks.org | Facebook | Twitter | Upcoming Events
John Jacobs
Oct 8, 2020, 9:50:49 AMto kylabrown@rivco.org, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Miller, Anthony, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle
Kyla-
It’s difficult to accept the assertion you have been making regarding Park policies, given the simple reality that since September 8, all 18 National Forests in California (including San Bernardino National Forest- San Jacinto Ranger District) do not allow any use of those lands for any reason (no camping, day use, road access, etc)…and San Jacinto State Park trails are completely closed to any use- camping is allowed (at their developed campgrounds) only with reservations of 48 hours or more in advance. By comparison, current policy at Idyllwild County Park allows use of all trails, camping and facilities, and no prior reservation is required. At best, the Park’s policy regarding fire sources only matches San Jacinto State Park, and isn’t relevant to San Bernardino National Forest, where no access or use is allowed at all. This has raised the question: why does RivCo Parks Executive Team believe that their full access policy is reasonable, when the two other land managers in the area have much more stringent limitations?
It’s good to hear that a new Ranger position is in the hiring process- since the ongoing issue at Idyllwild County Park has been one of gradually declining supervision levels. Many of the residents around the Park have lived there for as much as 30-40 years, and can attest to a gradual reduction in supervision. This position should be present throughout most of the year, and not simply a temporary position as you’ve described- as you know, Idyllwild County Park is popular, and use has increased in recent years. There have been many past issues and incidences associated with the Park that would benefit from increased supervision:
https://pinecrestwatch.org/idy-county-park-illegal-encampments/
https://pinecrestwatch.org/idy-county-park-trespassing-fire-risks/
As a practical matter, it would have been much more appropriate to have this new supervisory position functional on September 8 (when USFS announced closures, and Idyllwild County Park followed with their use policies). Further, it sounds like the new position is still in the hiring process- extreme fire risk is present right now- what can the Park do immediately to address the need for increased supervision until this new position becomes active? Since extreme fire risks are the ‘new normal’ in western wildlands, can it be assumed that this new position will be functioning earlier in the summer camping season in coming years?
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
lannswanson
Oct 9, 2020, 7:17:01 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
John , From my understanding Lake Hemet is still open and people can still camp there they can’t use their use so I don’t know what the problem is with you but if they’ve got everything under control at the park you need to back off a little bit there is no reason to go to this extreme of shutting everything down again it’s against scientific protocol I don’t know if you’ve been reading the same thing I did but shutting everybody down it’s not healthy for everybody and I think that everybody needs to back off a little bit on the county park ! This seems to me like a smear campaign to the county parks because you’re not getting your way every time I turn around there’s something on my email about you complaining about the county park every time I turn around maybe you need to back off a little bit and let them handle their own problems instead of creating more that you seem to be doing!
Laura Elliott
Sent from my iPhone
davahunt
Oct 9, 2020, 8:23:25 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
WOW Laura! First of all, Lake Hemet is a private campground and can do pretty much whatever they want. The County Park is a taxpayer-funded government facility and should listen to the concerns of the local community taxpayers (Thanks John!) as Kyla clearly welcomes. I would hope that you would be aware that this is the worst time of the year for extreme fire danger in Idyllwild. We have not had rain in months. Our winter provided for significant vegetation growth. I would also hope that you are aware that California has the largest number of Covid cases in the nation, as well as the second largest number of new cases. If the County Board of Supervisors would have respected the Governor’s Stay At Home Order, the County Park would have been closed and we would not be in the situation that we are currently at. 1,000 people per day are dying in the U.S. from Coronavirus and our forests are burning at record rates. Scientific protocol actually does call for shut down in both of these cases. Let’s all work together to mitigate both of these risks 🙂
lannswanson
Oct 9, 2020, 8:44:42 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Wow too ! I think you’re giving into the fear too and you’re overreacting I lived up there for 35 years and I know the rest I own property there I don’t think you’re being respectful of what’s going on you can’t keep everything shut up people are losing their livelihoods people can go to the park and behave appropriately they should be able to be there it’s not up to you or anybody else to tell them what to do I’m sorry I think it’s really sad when everybody doesn’t realize that not everybody agrees with what you are trying to do and I think the county park there is doing what they want to do and need to do and they’re trying to do everything to keep it safe you guys are not stopping and letting them do it I think you need to back off a little bit personally!Laura
John Jacobs
Oct 9, 2020, 8:46:34 AMto ‘Laura Swanson’ via PC-RCPR Neighborhood Watch Info
Laura-
As I’ve mentioned in these dialogues with Kyla & the County Park administration, my personal view is that the Park should remain open at this time, but that doing so should include better supervision and management decisions. Both the local community and visitors to Idyllwild need a place to get outside &/or camp- since the National Forests and State Parks have been closed, this hasn’t provided any alternative, and I think County Park provides a reasonable option, if managed appropriately.
Supervision at the Park has been gradually declining for many years- those who regularly walk through the Park have observed this decline, and there has been a pattern of odd incidences in the Park that would likely be mitigated with better supervision. This issue goes hand in hand with the extreme fire risks that exist throughout the western US, and our local mountains, since literally ~95% of wildland fires have human causes. I’ve personally observed numerous examples of downright stupid behaviors in the Park (including an incident of visitors spinning a burning baton in campsite 1, immediately adjacent to the dry meadow)- the incident cited in August related to the wedding photography smoke device is only the most recent event. The placement of open BBQ’s amidst a field of dry grasses is another example of questionable management.
As far as fire risks are concerned, I believe that there should be zero tolerance for any inappropriate behaviors- as we all know too well from the string of recent wildfire activity, all it takes is a single moment of poor judgement or mal intent, and our homes, lives and beautiful mountains are lost. The primary issue here is mitigation of fire hazards, which requires good supervision and management decisions- both of which have a problematic history at Idyllwild County Park.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
Brown, Kyla wrote on 10/9/20 11:27 AM:
John,
I appreciate your concern for the Idyllwild community and residents during this time of increased fire danger. Please be assured that our team works diligently to provide a safe environment to recreate in while minimizing risks. Here is an update on camping, trail and fire restrictions for this week:
SBNF:
- Forest Reopens as of October 8: https://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/sbnf/alerts-notices
- Exempt from fire restrictions: Persons using a portable lantern or stove using gas, jellied petroleum, or pressurized liquid fuel within a Developed Recreation Site https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd821778.pdf
Mount San Jacinto State Park:
- Open for day hiking & camping in developed campgrounds: https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=636
- Fires/charcoal still prohibited.
Riverside County Mountain Parks:
- Open for day hiking and camping in developed campgrounds.
- All fires still restricted except for propane stoves for cooking.
You are correct that our reservation policies differ from state parks. We allow reservations to occur up to the same day, including walk-in reservations if we have adequate space. This policy is based on our real-time reservation system which is available to our on-site staff and volunteers. Staff and volunteers have the ability to accept payments and process reservations to accommodate those seeking place to stay overnight. This is true for all of our parks, including Idyllwild.
As for staffing levels, when resources are available we may add staffing depending on the need of the park/site. As you may be aware, our Park District went through a significant staffing reduction at the start of the pandemic (April/May) as a result of the immediate loss of programming and service revenues which comprise 40% of our overall budget. While it would have been ideal to have an extra supervisor position in place at the time the fire restrictions went in place, we simply were not in a position to make that happen. At this point in time, we are fortunate to be able to add a temporary position to the mountain parks team. That said, we must follow County hiring procedures. This can take time, but we are doing everything within our power to expedite the process. We will continue to evaluate our financial status along with our staffing needs and make adjustments as we are able to.
Kyla Brown, CPRE
GENERAL MANAGER | PARKS DIRECTOR
John Jacobs
Oct 11, 2020, 8:02:02 PMto Brown, Kyla, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Miller, Anthony, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle
Kyla-
Likewise, I appreciate your willingness to continue to dialogue on a very important issue that concerns many of the residents adjacent to Idyllwild County Park.
I’ve been monitoring the status of the September 8 National Forest closures, including the extension orders that have occurred since that time- the relaxation of some of those restrictions announced on Friday were somewhat expected. Since very little has changed in the risk factors for wildland fire (fuels moisture, overall fire activity state wide, etc.), I still question the wisdom of relaxing those closures, but such Federal and State decisions are generally beyond where I’m willing to invest my energies. In any case, these policy revisions have little relevance to RivCo Parks policies, as they have essentially maintained full accessibility to anyone since September 8.
Since supervision of the Park is the ongoing, overarching issue, it would be logical to expect that supervision levels will be stepped up as soon as possible, and into the future. It goes without saying that the sooner the temporary ranger position is filled and active, the better. More importantly, this additional supervisory position needs to be present throughout the year, especially during the high use/high risk times of the year- May through October. Will this be the case for 2021 and beyond?
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
Joe Chiosso
Oct 11, 2020, 8:14:49 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
The county parks continues with more of their excuses and not any real action, a couple of employees renting or living in a county building is a far cry from someone who owns a home and has a stake in this community. Im sorry John just gets the runaround. Thanks for what your doing John.
—————————————–
John Jacobs
Oct 22, 2020, 3:44:09 PMto Brown, Kyla, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Miller, Anthony, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle
Kyla-
Can you update on the status of the temporary Ranger position at Idyllwild County Park you described in your October 9 email?
Will this become a position that is budgeted into the coming year, to avoid lapses of supervision of the Park during seasons with higher fire risk?
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
Brown, Kyla wrote on 10/22/20 3:56 PM:
Mr. Jacobs,
The temporary Ranger position is still in recruitment. I do not have an ETA on when they will start but obtain updates every week.
This is not a permanently budgeted position and I cannot guarantee the position in future years. Adding the position will be dependent upon the resources available in the new fiscal year.
Kyla Brown, CPRE
GENERAL MANAGER/PARKS DIRECTOR
John Jacobs
Oct 23, 2020, 8:06:59 AMto Brown, Kyla, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Miller, Anthony, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle
Kyla-
It appears quite possible that the recruitment process will continue while the San Jacinto Mountains are at their highest risk during the Santa Ana season, and the hiring of the much needed temporary ranger position will occur after the rains have started, thus quickly ending the need for that position. That’s particularly poor timing.
Will RivCo Parks be actively attempting to find permanent budgeting for this much needed temporary position for 2021 (and beyond)? It would obviously be logical to immediately include this position in whatever budget projections are created for 2021, to ensure this position is functioning by the time the high risk fire season begins (~May).
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
10/26/20
Mr. Jacobs,
I agree with your sentiment about the desire for the extra position. Unfortunately, I cannot guarantee that we will be in the position to add the position permanently. This year posed a particular challenge with the funding losses as a result of the pandemic. We recovered enough to add the temporary position for this year and are hopeful we’ll have someone on board quickly. Each year, we evaluate our financial position and will request any positions necessary. Since we don’t receive County funding, the ability to fill positions is directly based on our financial outlook for the year. I anticipate next year will continue to be challenging as we recover from the pandemic and work to reopen many of our facilities that have been closed.
Respectfully,
Kyla Brown, CPRE
GENERAL MANAGER/PARKS DIRECTOR
John Jacobs
Nov 2, 2020, 1:10:20 PMto Miller, Anthony, Brown, Kyla, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
Anthony-
This evidence of campfire activity outside of the campground area was found yesterday:
This is located above the Hillside Trail (above the Group Sites area), near the rock with the ‘hourglass’ shaped graffiti painted on it. It appears that this site was created a few months ago, and had been mitigated by someone, turning over the soil, and pushing the fire scarred rocks aside. There is significant combustible shrub and treecover in the area.
Anthony, do you know anything more about this site- when/if it was found by Park staff, and when it was mitigated? This is yet another example of campfire evidence that has been found outside the campground, and should be particularly worrying to anyone.
Once again, supervision could play an important role in spotting this kind of activity and stopping it immediately. Kyla, what is the current status of the temporary position at the Park? It is frustrating to hear that during such high risk fire conditions, that the Park system is willing to remain open to normal use during such unusual conditions, but that there is no apparent plan to balance this policy with longterm increased supervision.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
Miller, Anthony
Nov 5, 2020, 12:52:10 PMto John Jacobs, Brown, Kyla, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
Hi John,
On September 12, 2020 around 12PM Park staff were patrolling in the park and saw smoke from an illegal campfire coming from the Hillside Trail. They hiked up and found two individuals at the site. Staff explained the fire restriction (and advised them of the danger they were creating with their illegal campfire). Staff immediately applied water and turned over the soil to be sure the fire was dead out. Staff further explained camping was not permitted where they were setting up, and took down their identification to take the further step of banning them from all Rivcoparks facilities. They were escorted from the property and the site was inspected again and cleaned further..
| Anthony MillerPark Ranger Supervisor RivCoParks (Riverside County Regional Park and Open-Space District) 4600 Crestmore Road, Jurupa Valley, CA 92509anmi…@rivco.org | (951)-529-5620www.RivCoParks.org #RivCoParks | Facebook | Twitter | Upcoming Events | ||
11/5/20
John,
Regarding the status of the Ranger recruitment – unfortunately the first two people we were in the hiring process with ended up declining the position which is why it has taken so long. We were able to reopen the recruitment this week and will still work toward filling it as our need still exists. Feel free to share the job opportunity with those you think might be interested. The position recruitment closes next Wednesday and information can be found here: https://www.governmentjobs.com/careers/riverside.
Respectfully,
Kyla Brown, CPRE
GENERAL MANAGER | PARKS DIRECTOR
dawn.p…@gmail.com
Nov 6, 2020, 9:09:15 AMto Neighborhood Watch Notifications, John Jacobs, Brown, Kyla, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle
Riverside County Park Supervisors, Administrators, Rangers and Neighbors:
As a homeowner on Riverside County Park Playground Road, I’m deeply appreciative that we are keeping a record of safety concerns including illegal fire activity in the park. It seems that a solid case is being made to achieve the following objectives:
– Increased levels of paid and fully trained staff of the Riverside County Parks within the San Jacinto Mountains- Alignment of fire bans and associated policies across the National, State and County campgrounds within the San Jacinto Mountains
The objectives are crucial to protecting the safety of the entire town of Idyllwild, Pine Cove, Mountain Center and the surrounding mountain communities. Southern California Edison and Southern California newspapers have reported that this area has similar risks to those of Paradise, CA. Riverside County must take all necessary precautions to avert a similar tragedy.
John Jacobs acts as the primary spokesperson for our neighborhood watch group but this discussion is expanding to include a number of people within the Idyllwild area who share our concerns.
I understand that these parks are tax funded and that you also require fee revenue to run these parks. It is a business. I also note that, over the years, you have expanded the number of year-round camping sites at Idyllwild County Park. And you appear to be collecting a higher volume of fees at that park and at the Nature Center. I am hopeful that this increased revenue will translate to increased staffing year-round since we no longer have a “fire season.”
Thank you,
Dawn Papaila
dawn.p
Nov 6, 2020, 11:35:07 AMto Neighborhood Watch Notifications, John Jacobs, Brown, Kyla, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle
Pics from today evidence a camp fire at 83. Several tent campers tonight with freezing temps predicted. Not a Ranger, employee or host around.
John Jacobs
Nov 28, 2020, 10:55:28 AMto Brown, Kyla, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
The illegal campfire near the Hillside Trail above the Group Sites area occurred on September 12, 4 days after the extreme fire risks at that time resulted in closure of all National Forests in California, and significant restrictions in use of State Park campgrounds (as has been thoroughly discussed, Idyllwild County Park restrictions remained the least conservative of all land managers in this area). Whatever policy changes that occurred at Idyllwild County Park during that time did not accompany any significant change in supervision of the Park.
The fact that this incident did not escalate into a disaster is quite fortunate for all of us. However, wildfires are well-known to explode into massive destruction within incredibly short periods of time- given the conditions that were present at the time, this easily could have done the same. However the Rangers might have found this campfire on September 12, it should not be interpreted as a sign that the current levels of supervision at County Park is satisfactory- there have been numerous other examples of illegal fires that have been reported to the Park and (recorded at the Pine Crest Watch website)- many of these were reported to County Park staff by other users or nearby residents.
It seems quite logical that when wildfire risks are at their height, if RivCo Parks management chooses to keep Idyllwild County Park open, there should be increased supervision levels present to monitor for dangerous activities.
Kyla, what is the status of the temporary ranger position hiring you described in October?
The recent cooler temperatures have been a welcome change, however there have been several Red Flag warnings from the National Weather Service over the last two months- the most recent warning was over Thanksgiving. NOAA has forecasted lower than average precipitation levels and higher than average temperatures for this coming winter- all of the Southwest US is under high risk fire conditions throughout the year. When will RivCo Park’s budgeting for increased supervision come to grips with this new normal?
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
Dawn Papaila wrote on 11/6/20 11:34 AM:
Barry Zander
Nov 30, 2020, 4:47:03 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
John, you & your <neighbors> continue to do a great job protecting the Lower PInecrest area. Barry
11/3/20
Mr. Jacobs,
Thank you for reaching out again to share your concerns. As Park Ranger Supervisor Miller noted in his email about the illegal fire that occurred on September 12, the incident was caught be staff and addressed immediately with the added step of banning the offending parties from the park for future use. Your comment that RivCoParks is the least restrictive is inaccurate. As I have pointed out in the past, we have been the most restrictive.
As for the status of the temporary ranger at Idyllwild, we are still in the hiring process. Unfortunately, the first person we offered the position to ended up declining and we had to restart the process. In the meantime, we are ensuring proper coverage with the staff that are available and will continue to work toward filling the position, utilizing the extra ranger for as long as is deemed necessary. I appreciate your continued diligence in sharing concerns of the group and, as I mentioned before, we value the entire neighborhood keeping watch over the park to ensure it remains well maintained an safe.
Kyla Brown, CPRE
GENERAL MANAGER | PARKS DIRECTOR
John Jacobs
Dec 1, 2020, 8:52:45 AMto Brown, Kyla, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Washington, Chuck, DeArmond, Michelle, Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
Kyla-
The fact seems pretty clear that RivCo’s policies regarding Park access in response to the extreme fire conditions on September 8 were in fact, overall the least restrictive of the major land managers in the Idyllwild area (San Bernardino National Forest, San Jacinto State Park, Idyllwild County Park). While RivCo Park’s fire management policies were the same as the other land managers, that was a moot point in the National Forest, which was closed to all activities, including camping of any kind. San Jacinto State Park did not allow any camping for anyone without a reservation at least 48 hours in advance. During this time, Idyllwild County Park remained open (with fire restrictions) to any kind of use, including walk-in camping. Because of the restrictions the other land managers had imposed, Idyllwild County Park became the place where all overflow camping occurred. It’s difficult to understand how these clear facts aren’t self-evident, but perhaps we’ll have to agree to strongly disagree.
Looking forward, it’s unfortunate that the budgeting and planning process with RivCo Parks management hasn’t foreseen the need for improved supervision much earlier, and ensured that this additional ranger position was in place at the time it is needed most. This needs immediate attention to ensure that this lapse doesn’t happen in the coming months- what steps are being taken at this time to ensure adequate budgeting, and when will the hiring process begin to fill the temporary position in the coming year? Assuming this budgeting is put in place, what timeframe would the temporary position be in place?
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
Mr. Jacobs,
Thank you for reaching out again to share your concerns. As Park Ranger Supervisor Miller noted in his email about the illegal fire that occurred on September 12, the incident was caught be staff and addressed immediately with the added step of banning the offending parties from the park for future use. Your comment that RivCoParks is the least restrictive is inaccurate. As I have pointed out in the past, we have been the most restrictive.
As for the status of the temporary ranger at Idyllwild, we are still in the hiring process. Unfortunately, the first person we offered the position to ended up declining and we had to restart the process. In the meantime, we are ensuring proper coverage with the staff that are available and will continue to work toward filling the position, utilizing the extra ranger for as long as is deemed necessary. I appreciate your continued diligence in sharing concerns of the group and, as I mentioned before, we value the entire neighborhood keeping watch over the park to ensure it remains well maintained an safe.
Kyla Brown, CPRE
GENERAL MANAGER | PARKS DIRECTOR
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