Aside from the film crew in town on Wednesday, you might have noticed a heavy presence of law enforcement personnel around Idyllwild. Groups of patrol cars (CHP, Sheriff, unmarked) were seen along Pine Crest, in various locales around town, at Lake Hemet- two Sheriff’s vehicles were seen posted on Hwy 74 at the bottom of the hill in Palm Desert.
Apparently, there was a large area-wide crime sweep by several agencies targeting Idyllwild, Pine Cove, Mountain Center, and Anza. Here’s a press release from the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department about the event:
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 . Idyllwild, California 92549
Earlier this week (Monday night, I believe) a vehicle was stolen, and several other vehicles were burglarized- these incidents occurred in the vicinity of Toll Gate and the Meadow drive area, all on the same evening. As I understand it, some video was captured, but difficult to identify faces as they were wearing hoodies- a white vehicle (Honda coupe-type) is thought to have been related to these incidents. The persons methodically walked along checking cars for open doors, and there was forced entry into some vehicles. The stolen vehicle belonged to longtime Idyllwild resident Jon Millhouse- I spoke with him today, and he said he had regrettably left his car unlocked.
As vehicle break-ins have occurred in our neighborhood as well over recent years, this is an unfortunate reminder to keep vehicles (and homes!) locked, and do not leave *anything* of value in vehicles- not even for a short time.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Don’t know if you’ve come across this yet, but there is a document that has been circulating around these days written by Erin Bromage that provides a nice summary of understanding of COVID-19, activities that tend to be higher risk, and principles that can help one to mitigate those risks in the activities we all do. Bromage is a professor of immunology and infection at U Mass Dartmouth (his UMass Dartmouth profile is here, and he has another useful website here), and he wrote this paper primarily for his family and friends to better understand COVID-19. He has a good science background, and the paper is nicely referenced with solid resources.
Though understanding of COVID-19 is still far from complete, this is a pretty good overview of what is understood right now- if you are into the science details, be sure to explore the references he provides in this paper.
Hope you and your families are remaining well during this difficult time.
I noticed new fire/cooking stands have been installed in the meadow area of the Park:
There are three of them (two shown here) that I noticed- they are in remarkably close proximity to a very large expanse of dry, extremely flammable grass, with little or no clearance of duff around them. Anthony, can you please comment on how this area is going to be used, and the rationale for the installation of fire/cooking stands in such a questionable area? Given the extreme fire risk that exists in the area, and recent observations from at least one local resident of campfires in the Park in spite of fire restrictions, this project seems quite illogical.
_________________________________________Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch888.522.9001Idyllwild, California 92549
Miller, Anthony
Nov 16, 2019, 9:03:39 AMto Pine Crest Watch
Good morning
John, Apologies for not getting back to you sooner I have been out with personal issues dealing with a family medical issue as well as having vehicles broken into this past week (Report filed with Riverside Sheriffs) so it’s been hectic but am glad to say I’m back and everyone is healthy again. Eager to continue moving forward with our improvements. I do appreciate you pointing out the clearances we initially put down- I agree they need to be larger and I discussed that first thing this morning with staff. They are part of a much larger project with the trail around the meadow that area should be kept mowed and clear to both protect the meadow as well as giving additional clearance up to our fence line and neighbors. If you would like to take a walk with me I am more than happy to share and hear your input. Give me a call 951-529-5620 to arrange ahead of time so I can put it down on my calendar and be available to discuss. I anticipate fire restrictions to continue for the foreseeable future I am encouraged to see a chance of rain/snow but we are not out of the woods yet in getting out of this dry/windy pattern so please let us know (myself, Ranger Reyes, Camp hosts) if you see any campfires do not hesitate to reach out to us to let us know. Even if it ends up being a propane source which is allowed I prefer we check them out to be safe.
Sorry to hear about the family issues and being impacted by the recent vehicle break-ins. Hope this is settling out acceptably for you.
From the standpoint of fire safety, the location of those bbq fixtures present numerous concerns. Any kind of fire fixture such as this should have a concrete pad surround them, and all organic material around it removed down to mineral soil- though some of top grass has been removed, there is still quite a bit of duff in close proximity to them. These new bbq fixtures are located in very close proximity to the very dry, open meadow- by comparison, the bbq fixtures in the existing picnic area are at least 100′ from any kind of grass or organic groundcover. There are no ash disposal bins anywhere nearby (currently), so users may attempt to dispose of ashes inappropriately (such as in the brushy, unmaintained drainage adjacent to the meadow, bordering numerous residences).
Though fire restrictions are in place right now, violations of this have been observed in the campground by local residents. Supervision levels throughout the Park appear to be inconsistent, and not addressing problems that arise there- certainly inappropriate fire use in the Park is a great concern, when it isn’t identified and addressed.
Besides the fire risks these bbq fixtures present, they are also in close proximity to the backside of residential homes along Lower Pine Crest- this has potential to create more noise disturbance to those residents.
And it begs the question: are additional bbq fixtures like this *really* necessary? The main picnic area has quite a bit of existing fixtures- since the location of these new fixtures is about 100 yds from the parking area, users would have to manually carry all of their supplies a great distance to this location. From an ecologic standpoint, in order to make those bbq fixtures reasonably safe, it will require extensive removal of the natural meadow around those large pine trees, and result in extensive soil compaction due to foot traffic. This puts the meadow and the trees at greater risk, at a time when the ecology of the area is extremely drought stressed.
I appreciate your consideration to this, Anthony- the safety and quality of life issues that arise related to the Park are important issues to myself and many local residents.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
kathystyles01
Hi John/Anthony:I took a walk today to see these and have to admit, it does seem like an odd placement for barbecues. I own a house right next to that trail and from my experience, the current day use area is very lightly used. Makes me wonder why the County would see the necessity of expanding it in any way, but if they really see a need for that, there’s still room to add to the existing picnic area without extending facilities down the trail, which as John noted, fire danger aside (and that is no small issue), would be very inconvenient for day users to lug all their supplies down to the new barbecues. I do appreciate the need for the park and neighbors to communicate with each other and be considerate of each other’s needs. Thank you John/Anthony for allowing us be part of this discussion.Kathy Styles
John Jacobs
Jun 3, 2020, 1:57:26 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Anthony-
As of last Monday, there are still several sites where evidence of human waste remains- there are a couple of large ‘deposits’ above campsites 16 & 17- I tied pink contractors flagging tape in the trees/bushes nearby to make them easier to find. There are also numerous bits of toilet paper on the hillside above campsite 30. It would be worth exploring the hillsides above the back end of the park (group sites area)- there were large concentrations of campers there during the time the bathrooms were closed- undoubtedly, more ‘evidence’ will be found there.
Last November, the issue of the placement of the BBQ’s in the meadow was raised, without any real response. Those BBQ’s remain in the same location, continuing to be highly questionable in terms of safety (i.e. fire risk) and the simple logistical question of accessibility to park visitors. (The ecologic impact of foot traffic in that meadow is very much worth considering as well.)
The BBQ’s sit surrounded by flammable grasses, with thick duff under them. A very modest effort was made to remove some of that duff last fall, however it is very thick, and any kind of similar fire-related fixture would have the organic material removed down to mineral soil in a large area surrounding the fixture. (From a practical standpoint, it is a good distance from the parking area to these BBQ’s- very difficult for users to haul their picnic items all the way over there.) Removing this organic material will create quite a bit of stress to the stand of large trees there due to loss of mulching & rapid soil drying, soil compaction, and erosion. There is a large number of picnic tables and BBQ’s (easily accessible to vehicles) in an area that is already well-prepared. Importantly, the BBQ’s in this existing area are much easier to monitor by Park Staff from the entry kiosk to the Park.
A recent walk-by of the meadow BBQ’s shows some recent use, including bits of burned downed wood. That kind of use is not what those BBQ’s are intended for, and is a good example of how they will be misused in a high-risk location. (See attached images.)
All in all, these meadow BBQ’s just don’t make any sense. Can you please explain the rationale for this? It is a clear, documented fact that at least 90% of wildland fires are related to humans, and recreational misuse of fires is very common. Why create an easy way to have a serious incident, when there are plenty of safer, already existing locations throughout the Park?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Jun 5, 2020, 9:05:12 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna
John, I appreciated the flagging it helped to get some guidance where to continue picking up. My findings were minimal, however, so I sent staff to continue where I left off and they cleaned up what they could find as well. I am concerned from our observations that we aren’t finding all that you are reporting and I want to get it cleaned up so please let me know if that is the case. As for the BBQs our primary concern is with fire clearance and maintaining that 10′ around (to bare mineral earth) and above. In my patrols and checking on guests out there last weekend I’d noticed as well there was needed maintenance to be performed this week. Staff worked on that yesterday and today so I will be following up on that tomorrow afternoon in the daylight to verify it meets standard. I’d like to join you (while maintaining our social distancing and mask wearing) next time you walk the area to make sure we don’t miss anything and we have the same eyes on the problems at the same time. Please bring any concern to me directly as you find them in real time. If I am not available (my number is in my email signature) you can call the kiosk at 951-659-2656 and staff would be happy to hear you out and get us in touch so we can address the concerns directly.
Anthony MillerPark Ranger Supervisor
RivCoParks (Riverside County Regional Park and Open-Space District)
While the fire risks of the location of those BBQ’s in the meadow could theoretically be mitigated, there are several other issues related to their location that should be considered: *Proximity to nearby residents and increased ambient noise *Poor access to users of the Park (at least 100 yds from nearest vehicles where supplies can be unloaded) *Difficulty in monitoring fire use by Park personnel due to distant location *An already existing, under-utilized picnic area with plenty of BBQ’s, picnic tables, access to bathrooms, and easy access for Park users (and easy to supervise by Park staff)
And in no small part, the ecologic impact of the BBQ’s that have been installed in the meadow is being ignored here. In 1994, a biologic survey was done of Idyllwild County Park (and vicinity) by then-Director of the UC James Reserve, Dr. Michael Hamilton (this survey is likely to be on file in County Park records- if you can’t find it, I’m happy to forward one on to you). Dr. Hamilton points out that this is a ‘wet meadow’ (a form of wetland) by ecologists, due to the movement of water through and around it, and the types of species that rely upon it.
Dr. Hamilton explained that the Idyllwild County Park ‘meadow’ (and surrounding area) is unique in it’s status in the San Jacinto Mountains amongst similar ecosystems, and there are numerous species of plants and animals in this area that are either currently considered Endangered by the State of California or the Federal Government, or are candidates for inclusion in those designations. (Designated wetland areas commonly receive protections from federal and state governments.) The meadow likely doesn’t have this federal designation because Idyllwild County Park has been part of the Riverside County Park system for a very long time. However, the County is required to follow regulatory guidelines of the California Environmental Quality Act in the event of planned developments, which mandates review by various state agencies such as California Fish & Game. It is also quite possible that US Army Corps of Engineers would have to make a wetlands determination, and for that would consult the US Fish & Wildlife Service, &/or the US EPA.
Anyone who has regularly visited Idyllwild County Park over the course of many years (or decades) who have carefully observed the condition of meadow can attest to the various ‘improvements’ that have occurred in and around it. In recent years, this has included the widening of the perimeter path on the NW side to a virtual dirt road, and a similar widening of the path that leads to the stand of trees along the SE side of the meadow (where these BBQ’s have been placed). More elaborate plans have included the building of pickleball courts, and discussions of projects such as a dog park. Numerous groups have requested to use it for various special events, and many/most have been turned down (presumably because of the desire to protect this natural resource).
These BBQ’s are the most recent example of these ‘improvements’- if there is a solid rationale for them, I’m quite open to hearing it. As the matter currently stands, however, the need for them does not appear to be evident, and there are numerous negative impacts that will be associated with them.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001
Idyllwild, California 92549
dawn.p
Jun 12, 2020, 5:22:56 PMto Neighborhood Watch Notifications, Anthony Miller, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, DaynaDustin and
Anthony The press reports that Riverside County campgrounds opened up on June 12th. This neighborhood watch group and been reporting our concerns when Idyllwild County Park began staged openings over the past several weeks. Last weekend, the campground was completely full (no spacing between sites that I could discern). Please explain why Idyllwild County Park opened up prior to June 12th and why you told us that you were doing so within County COVID-19 guidelines. Thank you, Dawn Papaila
This is the level of use of the existing picnic area around 3 pm on last Saturday, June 13:
This is the level of use around 1:20 pm on Sunday, June 14:
As you can plainly see, even at peak time on a busy weekend, the existing picnic area with at least 6-7 BBQ’s is barely in use- only one group was seen using the picnic area at this time.
Can you please provide an explanation as to why additional BBQ’s are needed in an ecologically sensitive area (such as those placed in the Meadow) that creates significant fire risk, placed in proximity to residences, and is very inconvenient for any Park user to access?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
dawn.p
Jun 17, 2020, 1:29:57 PMto Neighborhood Watch Notifications, Anthony Miller, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna
Dustin and Anthony, Per my email below sent last week, please explain what authority you referenced to open the campground fully prior to June 12th. I am deeply concerned that this was a mistake. And I’m wondering if Rivco Parks is communicating honestly with the Neighborhood Watch group that borders Idyllwild campground. Thank you,
Dawn Papaila
awesomethree2003
Jun 17, 2020, 2:23:48 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Chuck and Linda Stroud of four generations of our family in this valley. You will find my references online. We find ourselves asking the same questions regarding current Idyllwild Park use. I am sure you will recall the Renaissance Fair fiasco. You maybe even recall Paul Black and “An Idyll Interrupted.” It is past time for answers! You are calling to question the character of many in Riv. Co. governance! As in, “By the close of business today.”
Hi Dawn, Per working with State and County Guidelines we began operating as an RV park offering camping to self contained units under those guidelines approximately at the end of April/beginning of May. We took most of the month of April to prepare for that decision as per County Public Health deeming Recreational Vehicle Parks as “essential”. During that time we did allow some tent camping so long as they were attached to a self-contained “group”. There was an occasional tent camper who were travelers with no where else to go and they were allowed the night and asked to leave in the morning on that infrequent circumstance. Despite our sites being more than six feet apart we are still limiting capacity and holding quite a few campsites to allow opportunity to social distance to create more room overall. Camping and reservations were not advertised or promoted at that time. We operated under those guidelines for the month of May, until we received permission to open for tent camping starting June 1. Here is some press advertising similar campgrounds that chose to re-open at that time. Adjacent counties operated under similar circumstances with similar precautions (San Bernardino National Forest is . https://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2020-05-21/forest-campgrounds-reopen-amid-coronavirus-pandemic
As for the press release for June 12, it was a very broad announcement and I do believe there are still some campgrounds that are not yet open and there are some that are open with similar guidelines as we have (encouraging social distancing, no group camping, no large “events” and “gatherings”.) Parks Management have been very involved in guidance with Riverside County Board of Supervisors and taking the re-opening process procedurally via guidance from Riverside County Board of Supervisors and the State level. Dustin can probably speak to more specifics on that but as field staff that is how it has been explained to myself and my staff.
John, The BBQ grill units were installed on existing fixtures to replace the ones that were damaged-they are not new and is part of the day use area. After conferring with Parks Management although they are near the meadow there aren’t any ecological or environmental impacts where they are located on the perimeter. I have stressed the importance ofmaintaining the fire clearance to my staff and we do patrol the area when guests are in the park in addition to the campground areas.
With all due respect, ‘Parks Management’ does not have a great history of managing this particular park in many regards- the fact that ‘Parks Management’ has ‘approved’ them doesn’t really make them any more acceptable- they were a bad decision in the first place.
Regardless of their prior history, the placement of those BBQ’s is still very odd, and the issues remain: *Ecologically sensitive area (there is data to clearly illustrate this) *Surrounded by dry grass, with significant fire hazard *Significant distance from any parking area, making access difficult *Proximity to resident homes *Numerous existing BBQ’s that are barely used in a safer location, easier to access and monitor
Given these realities, what is the justification for these BBQ’s to be there at all (regardless of their prior history)?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Some kind of explanation would be appreciated for the placement of those BBQ’s (and the several picnic tables that have been placed there). Regardless of their prior history, their placement serves very little practical benefit to Park users, they increase fire danger, and having them there requires significant impact to the meadow. The rationale that they were simply replaced makes little sense, as these issues have always been at play.
Do these BBQ’s somehow fit in with a greater plan to increase use of the meadow? Are there plans to create vehicle access to that area?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
awesomethree2003
Jun 22, 2020, 2:06:10 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
I said the other day that revised policies for use were established following the Festival Fiasco. Meadow is limited to day use, no organized events (as in don’t slam your heads on the sign) and attendees limited existing parking only. Other considerations were drafted with the inclusion our conservancy, Hamilton, Siva, Saubel and Staff Archaeologist for Soboba Band and finally Friends. You have yet to ask the recorded basis for the removal in the first place Chuck Stroud
Some kind of explanation would be appreciated for the placement of those BBQ’s (and the several picnic tables that have been placed there). Regardless of their prior history, their placement serves very little practical benefit to Park users, they increase fire danger, and having them there requires significant impact to the meadow. The rationale that they were simply replaced makes little sense, as these issues have always been at play.
Do these BBQ’s somehow fit in with a greater plan to increase use of the meadow? Are there plans to create vehicle access to that area?
_________________________________________Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch888.522.9001Idyllwild, California 92549
The intuition of Park neighbors, many with a multi-generational presence should have been sufficient, and yet with the persistence shown to date, our anxiety remains. Looking to me like another Morrison and Forester, Western Environmental Law Center issue. Park policies were revised and redrafted following efforts of promoters to turn the entire area into a carnival zone. Move those records and press accounts before agencies like this. Are they hoping you will give up? Chuck Stroud
Good afternoon, There are no plans to expand our footprint farther into the meadow; The BBQ’s have been replaced and tables set out for guests’ enjoyment (and increase opportunities to social distance) and proper efforts have been made to mitigate the fire concerns both in maintaining the surrounding landscape and through patrol and keeping eyes on them so we can observe if they become problematic.
Jul 7, 2020, 10:31:01 AM (12 days ago) to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, DMcLain@, dwhitaker@, jennifer.gee@john
Anthony-
Here is the level of use the existing picnic area had over the busy 4th of July holiday weekend.
Friday, July 3, ~1:20 pm:
Saturday, July 4, ~3 pm:
Sunday, July 5, ~1:45 pm
All of these images (in addition to those provided on the weekend of June 13-14) clearly demonstrate that the existing picnic area is more than adequate to serve current levels of use by visitors, with plenty of room to accommodate future increases. Adding additional BBQ’s and picnic tables in an area that has higher fire risk, is more difficult to monitor by park staff, is more disruptive to nearby residents, and has significant ecologic impact on the meadow area makes very little sense.
Anthony, please reply with some kind of rationale for the replacement of those meadow BBQ’s. _________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Joe Chiosso
Jul 7, 2020, 12:03:46 PM (12 days ago) to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
I believe with the small parking lot and undersize bathrooms and a big factor is the lack of staff that they shouldn’t add more but try and work with what they have.
—————————————–
Joe Chiosso
Jul 7, 2020, 12:21:29 PM (12 days ago) to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
If better training is needed for the staff or better management that should be done first before adding more hazards.
John Jacobs
Jul 16, 2020, 11:46:48 AM (3 days ago) to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, DMcLain@, dwhitaker@, jennifer.gee@
Anthony-
Here is the level of use of the existing picnic area around 1:30 pm, last Sunday, July 12:
Once again, you can see that this existing picnic area remains well below it’s maximum capacity.
It is disappointing that you have not been able to share any kind of rationale for re-installing the BBQ’s in a meadow that is ecologically sensitive, when there is no apparent practical reason to do so, and they only increase fire risks. (Not to mention that Park user access to them is difficult at best, and there are no trashcans anywhere near them.) This poses an unnecessary risk to local residents, and has a negative impact on a sensitive environmental area.
If there is a strong rationale for this, your perspective as the Supervising Ranger of this Park (or from any of the County Parks Executive Team) would be appreciated.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Hi John, The BBQs are installed in our picnic are and were reinstalled to give people room to spread out and enjoy the perimeter of the meadow. Many choose to stay close to the parking lot but each weekend a family or two choose to go enjoy the shade and properly pack in/out belongings and trash. Our primary concern is maintaining the fire clearances throughout and staff (and Ranger) can see levels of use out there. Fire clearances are maintained per the Cal-Fire standard. As far as ecological concerns, especially considering the level of use you are pointing out ultimately the overall impact is minimal given the very small size of the area we are discussing and its location on the perimeter of the meadow in between the front day use area and trail access. . I do see benefits in taking care of the perimeter of the meadow across from the trail giving a fire break and allowing for the placement of our interpretive signage to educate the public why we are protecting the meadow and not allowing significant events and use of the area. Having a clear trail and aiming our efforts at eduction helps keep wandering public from trampling or disturbing the meadow as well. The shade is also a spot for hikers returning from the hillside and summit trails to rest on a bench in a shady area before heading back up towards Nature Center. Plans for increased use of meadow remain at our current standard and we are not increasing scope of use beyond hiking and picnicking.
Jul 17, 2020, 10:19:18 AM (2 days ago) to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Miller, Anthony, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, jennifer.gee@
Anthony-
Thank you for the response.
When each of those photos were obtained of the existing picnic areas during numerous busy summer mid-day weekends, there were no users observed at tables in the meadow (that were recently placed there).
The rationale that since they receive little use they create minimal ecologic impact is oddly faulty. Developing that area in that way simply invites impacts, which makes no sense since the existing area is more than adequately serving the need. As a general principle of land preservation, concentration of impact is a better strategy than spreading it out over large areas. It is good to hear that there are no plans to increase the scope of use of that meadow area.
There are many, many locations where any hiker who came down from the Nature Center (via the Hillside or Summit trails) can find a shaded resting place before returning. If having such a rest spot is desirable, why not place a simple bench (such as is found in several other locations around the Park) adjacent to the meadow, where users can observe the meadow (but doesn’t encourage large groups, or the risk of fire)?
The existing picnic area is completely covered in shade. It makes little sense that any user would walk through the existing, shady picnic area, walk 100 yds through open sun, carrying coolers, picnic & BBQ supplies to a much smaller picnic area that has no access to water, no trashcans, and is a great distance from bathrooms.
At the risk of suggesting more impact to that meadow area, the area around those BBQ’s are far from being fire-safe. The topmost grasses were removed, but the rhizome mat of roots is deep and mostly still intact. Grass is already beginning to grow around them.
Those meadow BBQ’s were removed many years ago- have you researched as to why they were removed? It would not seem surprising if the rationale for removal was related to their fire risk, ecologic impact, inaccessibility, etc.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
It doesn’t appear as though a direct answer will be forthcoming about the BBQ’s that have been installed in the meadow, in spite of the fire risk they pose, and the ecologic impact they create…all for some fixtures that are very difficult for Park users to access (as described and documented below).
Meanwhile, it seems the Park is seeing unusually heavy use this year- in year’s past, mid-weeks would find the Park largely empty. This summer, however, the Park seems to be operating nearly half full during mid-week, and virtually full over the weekends. That’s a lot of impact, noise, and increased fire risks…with very little supervision. In recent regular walks around the Park, I don’t recall seeing any Park personnel anywhere in the Park- the entry kiosk is *always* empty. In year’s past, there has been a Camp Host present to provide some level of supervision to the Park while ‘official’ personnel are not present- this doesn’t seem to be happening any longer.
Adequate supervision is central to managing the risks and impacts of large numbers of Park users- can you please provide an update as to the apparent low levels of supervision currently taking place in the Park?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Comparing our usage this year vs. last year I found the following over the 6 week period starting the week before July 4 to approximately 1st week of August:
2019
2020
Total Nights Reserved Sun-Thu
610
853
Total Nights Reserved Fri-Sat
933
715
Occupancy % Sun-Thu
34%
47.4%
Occupancy % Fri-Sat
86.4%
66.2%
Prior to COVID I added a staff member to the rotation of Idyllwild Regional Park (a Park Attendant) in addition to the Ranger Position and Maintenance Worker position, which is different this year from recent years when we ran with 2 paid staff positions. We prioritize the heaviest use periods (and highest potential for abuse) in our scheduling and do patrol and prioritize cleaning mid-week vs. staffing the kiosk 24/7. I am on duty on the weekends until all is quiet and calm at night and keep busy throughout the park. While we have seen a modest increase in our mid-week traffic, on weekends our efforts to keep traffic reasonable with the increased demand for camping this summer have been quite fruitful.
Recruiting for camp hosts has been challenging with COVID however we do have one couple cleared and ready to start 8-30-2020 as well as some interviews lined up for the other position. I am excited to begin working with them.
We are always on the lookout for knuckleheads and are available to handle if anyone sees anything objectionable – we will address when you let us know. If there is an emergency, call 9-1-1. I speak with many of our regular walkers while I’m out and about and I always ask how things are going and try to get a feel for what the community is seeing on their walks through the park when staff are off duty and/or assigned tasks elsewhere in the park.
As for the BBQs, I have inquired about the ecological impacts as you have suggested and it has been determined that no direct or indirect impacts currently exist. If you wish to have further oversight regarding ecological impacts please feel free to contact the State (California Department of Fish and Wildlife) and Federal Wildlife (United States Fish and Wildlife Service) Agencies.
Those are interesting statistical numbers on Park use over the past two years- It’s particularly noteworthy that mid-week use has increased, while week-end use has decreased since last year. The overflowing dumpsters at the end of each weekend seem to attest to much higher use.
You mentioned ‘making inquiries’ related to the ecologic impacts of the meadow BBQ’s- what agency did you inquire with? According to Mike Hamilton’s emails from 2000, this meadow is likely considered an ecologic wetland, which means “…the County does have to follow regulatory guidelines of the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA)…which mandates review by various state agencies such as Cal Fish and Game. In addition, because the surface waters of the US are involved, it is quite possible that the US Army Corps of Engineers would have to make a wetlands determination, and for that would consult the US Fish and Wildlife Service or the US EPA.”
His comments were in reference to developments of the meadow that were being considered at that time- while these BBQ’s are not of the same scale, they clearly have impacts on this ecology in the form of human traffic and soil compaction. It would seem likely that an official, final determination of the status of this meadow would be appropriate before these BBQ’s (or any other similar or more extensive developments) would be installed.
The Biologic Survey of the Meadow can be found here: https://pinecrestwatch.org/issues/ Setting aside the unsettled question of the ecologic impacts, there are some very clear realities here: these BBQ’s carry with them increased fire risks because of their proximity to abundant dry grasses…and they are very difficult to access by Park users- even under current levels of Park use, the existing BBQ’s in the picnic area are more than sufficient for current use levels, as demonstrated by repeated photographs during peak usage times.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Funny that everyone else on the hill is well aware that we have more visitors and have adjusted to dealing with that, seems to always be an excuse why the county park cant see what everyone already has.
davahunt
Aug 12, 2020, 9:26:18 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, C.Washington@rcbos.org, Washington, Chuck
I, for one, have NOT adjusted to the massive amounts of tourists invading our community while ignoring the Governor’s STAY AT HOME ORDER! Riverside County Administration is encouraging this by keeping the County Park open and they will probably lose State funding because of it, as well as prolong the effective opening of our economy by helping to spread the COVID virus instead of helping to contain and reduce it. This is clearly demonstrated by the increase in local cases several weeks after the 4th of July weekend. I am sorry to say that RIVCO continues to ignore the concerns of our community and only increases the negative views that Idyllwild has toward the County Park. I am reasonably sure that EVERY camper in the park is in defiance of the STAY AT HOME ORDER! The short-sighted plan of bringing in minimal funds from camping fees will have a long-term effect on the entire economy of Riverside County! VERY SAD INDEED 🙁
These bits of soiled toilet paper and dog waste bags have been recently observed along the commonly used trails in the Park. Most of them have remained there for weeks, and are in proximity to water drainages:
It would seem that the limited resources that the Park has would be far better utilized in focusing on the regular, persistent impacts related to increased user numbers, rather than installing BBQ’s in an ecologically questionable location that increases fire hazards….and not insignificantly, has no apparent need given the minimal use of the existing picnic BBQ’s.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
A walk around the Park this morning encountered the usual user trash items (water bottles, empty juice bags, orange peels, candy wrappers, beer bottles, etc.), in addition to numerous soiled toilet paper and filled dog waste bags. These sites are in addition to those that were posted about on August 13:
(This is adjacent to the meadow BBQ’s, where there are no trash cans.)
Ironically, it appears the dog waste bags found in these various locations are the ones that are supplied by the Park.
Can you comment on how Park resources are allocated to deal with this kind of regular, persistent user impact? Besides being unsightly, almost all of the soiled toilet paper and dog waste (both bagged and unbagged) were found in very close proximity to waterways- this clearly impacts water quality.
Perhaps more disturbingly, this evidence of illegal, inappropriate fires was also found below campsites 11-12:
The fire scarred rocks are clear evidence of a fire ring that was created by a Park user. The partially burned log (too green to completely burn) was obviously obtained from the area, and the manner of burning suggests it was moved through a fire ring progressively, which means that a smouldering portion of it would likely be outside of any fire ring.
This kind of activity is greatly concerning to local residents (and Idyllwild, as a whole). It seems quite clear that the issue of Park supervision and maintenance of impacts continues to be a problem. Your comments on this would be appreciated.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
John, I appreciate you getting the information over to me. By the photos I was able to determine that was on the lower trail leading below site 6 along the creek bed and took time (and had staff) do some litter picking down there. I agree it should be done regularly. I have discussed the issue with the team and we will be making more frequent rounds of those problem areas. I also discussed with our new camp hosts who started this week and are eager to help the park and get to know the community as well.
Just noticed that Idyllwild County Park is open- apparently, they are allowing ‘limited day use’ of the Park right now, including hiking and walking (no camping or group picnicking). Up until a few days ago, the Park was completely closed.
Anthony, can you explain the rationale for this decision? It completely contradicts the current ‘Stay at Home’ order from the Governor that took effect on March 20, 2020. Supervisor Chuck Washington has recently echoed this order, imploring people to NOT come to Idyllwild right now: https://news.yahoo.com/idyllwild-off-limits-amid-coronavirus-005248345.html
Having the parks open at this time simply creates a magnet for people to come to the town, and creates great risk to this tiny local population with extremely limited medical resources. How can the minuscule amount of revenue that will be generated by Day Use justify the risk that Riverside County Parks is magnifying with this current policy?
Anthony, no doubt this decision came down from a level higher than your supervisory level, but many of the local residents that surround the Park would appreciate an explanation as to why this action has been taken at this critical time. Feel free to forward this to whatever level of Park Management that you feel is appropriate. I will look forward to some kind of response.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Good afternoon John, Earlier this week our County eased some restrictions when it comes to Parks, golf courses, etc. At this time our directions have been to open for Day Use but with restrictions (wearing of facial coverings, maintaining social distancing, and no gatherings of more than immediate household. No parties, events, family/church picnics, etc. and staff have been instructed to explain the social distancing requirements upon entry). If they cannot abide by those rules I am asking them to leave the park. Similar revised orders appear to be popping up in San Bernardino and Orange Counties as well. https://www.pe.com/2020/04/20/riverside-county-reopens-golf-courses-with-conditions/
I attached the Riverside County News release from 4-20-2020 from www.rivcoph.org showing where the direction came from. I do appreciate the concern from the community and have forwarded up the chain of command to Area Manager Dayna Whitaker and Chief Dustin McClain to discuss with Parks Director Kyla Brown as we work with Public Health and discuss with the Board of Supervisors. Thank you for taking the time to reach out to me. I hope this helps explain the changes you saw in the County Park today. I will continue communicating with them and share your concerns as they arise.
Seems to me the park should still be blocked off to cars if it’s only open to hiking and biking and no one is at the kiosk at the entrance.
Reverence for all Life
John Jacobs
Apr 24, 2020, 4:38:13 PMto Pine Crest Watch
Anthony-
Thank you for the quick reply.
The County’s April 20 clarification of the earlier order regarding park use still conflicts directly with the State-wide ‘Stay at Home’ order issued by the Governor- in order for people to get to Idyllwild County Park, they need to leave their homes and travel to the small town of Idyllwild. While there, they will be visiting grocery stores, buying gas, taking out food from local restaurants…all of this results in interaction with the Idyllwild community. And contradicts the express purpose of the Stay at Home order- reducing exposure to COVID-19.
Will there be sufficient Park staff present to monitor visitors? (Short staffing has been a longstanding problem at the Park.) What are the ‘open’ hours of the Park? Will it be gated and blocked at the end of each day?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Just went into park adorned with mask, doggy & poop bag just to be surprised by seeing 2 people without masks picnicking in disabled campsite at the back of it, 2 guys no masks standing in parking lot, & woman going into restroom no mask. Might someone already in that restroom innocently be surprised? That’s what my park fee is paying for, and another man waiting no mask. Didn’t see anyone with mask. Living immediately next store is not the most secure feeling. I have a kidney transplant, so immune compromised.
I empathize completely, Bobbi, . This period of “opening up” is going to be difficult to manage especially since the rules vary county to county and perhaps even zip code by zip code. As of May 1, the Union Tribune reports that all of San Diego County will be required to wear face masks outdoors. Who knows if Riverside County will follow suit. I wish we are checking IDs and keeping our parks “local” right now. But the County makes the rules for our little town. 💜Dawn
Thanks Dawn💕When I called Anthony to ask if it was ok to walk doggy in the park when it first closed, he said yes on foot was ok just be sure to wear mask. That’s why I mentioned what I saw today.
Thank you all for your feedback I am continuing to follow up with management. The data and observations we have in the field let them know how the public are responding to the orders as we enforce them. Turned away quite a few vehicles who stated they did not possess facemasks and were not permitted entry. For the day I had 6 with no masks I asked to leave (and come back when they had masks) Many reminders to wear masks but quite a few pulled down or put in pocket while out on trail but observed many put masks back on as they approached people in park (and when they saw me approach them).
Anthony- I think the enforcement of mask use is important, but it’s missing the main point: Stay at Home means…Stay at Home. Or at the very least, in your very local neighborhood and community. Any of the visitors who came to the Park today who are not residents of Idyllwild violated the current state-wide order issued by the Governor that remains in place. How can the County Park system justify creating incentives to the public to violate this order? If this is a result of a ‘one size fits all’ application of the April 20 Golf Course/Parks order, it must have been intended to allow people to venture to their nearby county park and enjoy it…*not* travel a significant distance to a totally different community. Some kind of revision needs to be applied to the County Park’s policy until the statewide Stay at Home order has lifted- has this occurred to you? Are you planning on addressing this issue to your upper management/supervisors?
Yes, that is the ongoing conversation with management and above. I anticipate revised orders to come with the current orders running through 4-30 an update should come soon. Until then, stay safe and stay healthy everyone.
Thank you John. Well said!!! Opening up our parks as a resort areaIs opening up the flood gates for off hill folks to come and play. Now is not the time to encourage folks to come up and enjoy our village and parks.Thank you for speaking up for the majority.Sheila Zacker-
Effectively, this revised order says that Riverside County’s order prohibiting gatherings outside the home expires April 30, and is superseded by the statewide Stay at Home order, which is ongoing. It makes exceptions for ‘certain recreational activities’, including the use of trails and parks.
Has the County Parks Dept. revised their implementation of this order, as it relates to visitors at County Parks (i.e. Idyllwild) who do not reside in the immediate area of that Park?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Miller, Anthony
May 1, 2020, 2:51:34 PMto Pine Crest Watch
John, The revised Riverside County Order continues to allow:
Recreational activities including the use of trails and parks for hiking, biking, and equestrian use.
Golf with restrictions
Operation of RV parks as essential.
The amended health order also continues to require use of face coverings and social distancing (Staying 6 feet away from others whenever possible through June 19.) So long as people abide by the rules we are allowing them to come up the hill and use our parks and trails in a limited capacity to get some fresh air and exercise. I would encourage reaching out to Supervisor Chuck Washingtons’ office to share your concerns for the Idyllwild area-especially with the Board of Supervisors meeting this Tuesday (May 5) to discuss rescinding the County Public Health order that was issued on 4-29-2020 and continuing to lay groundwork to re-open businesses and the economy. It is a contentious issue with strong feelings on both sides and I understand they are not taking the decision lightly and perhaps they will consider the possibility of Idyllwild an exception given its unique circumstances.
May 1, 2020, 3:37:15 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.comAnthony-
I’m familiar with the activities that are accepted under both the April 20 & 29 Riverside County orders, and the requirement for masks.
Again: this misses the point. Any non-Idyllwild area visitor to the Parks are violating the State’s Stay at Home order. A 4 stage process has been defined by the Governor related to re-opening the state’s economy, which (as of April 28) the state is at Stage 1 (same status as when the order was put into place on March 20). There has been no announcement to move beyond that stage as of yet.
Supervisor Washington is well aware of the amount of visitorship in Idyllwild at this time, and has issued clear directives to follow the state’s order- there are many who have voiced this concern to him from the local area. On a more local level, I’m more curious about your role as the Park Ranger Supervisor for the park less than a block from my home. Honestly, I’m not getting the impression that you see anything problematic about the conflict between the County’s order vs. the State’s order. Is that the case, or is this conflict simply not within your scope of control, and you are doing as you have been directed to do by higher levels of management?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Miller, Anthony
May 1, 2020, 3:44:01 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
John,
It is simply beyond my scope of control. The decision came from Parks Executive Team and their discussions with the Board of Supervisors ultimately.
Your point is clear- I understand and empathize completely. I have discussed at length with those above me and our directions are as I stated at this time.
dawn.p.
May 1, 2020, 4:20:22 PMto Neighborhood Watch Notifications
Hi John, I understand and support your concerns completely, John. It makes absolutely no sense to allow people to come from surrounding areas into Idyllwild County Park while cases in Riverside, LA and San Diego counties continue to rise. This isn’t about being “exclusive.” We need to protect this tiny hamlet because we have very little access to healthcare services. I don’t even know how many ambulances we have up here but it can’t be many. Can you imagine if as few as 5 people had severe symptoms from COVID-19 all on the same day? I can only hope that I’m being paranoid. I really think we are powerless over this issue of unclear communication. I think that we just have to be careful about our own exposure and then hope that no visitors unknowingly infect someone at the local market. Dawn
furpeople54
May 1, 2020, 9:49:44 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Saw a truck and house trailer going into the park this evening. They stopped and read the do’s and don’t sign then went in anyway.
Reverence for all Life
John Jacobs
May 2, 2020, 8:32:56 AMto Pine Crest Watch
Anthony-
I appreciate your empathy on this issue. The conflict between the State’s order and the County’s orders really make no good sense.
How would one communicate more directly with the Parks Executive Team on an issue like this?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
John Jacobs
May 2, 2020, 9:41:14 AMto Pine Crest Watch
Residents of Pine Crest & Riv Co Play Rd:
I’ve written a letter I’d like to forward to the Chief of the Parks Executive Team related to the current opening of Idyllwild County Park- please see attached.
There are numerous residents in this area (and obviously Idyllwild as a whole) who have a very similar feeling- it would be helpful to have as many local residents signed on to this letter.
Please read the attached as soon as possible, and let me know if you’d like to be added to the signatory list at the end of the letter. (Normally, I’d probably try to get actual signatures, but under current conditions adding your name and home address will suffice.) I’m also open to revising the letter if you see a significant adjustment that needs to be made- please forward any comments.
You can either reply back to this GoogleGroup with your comments or approval, or contact me directly at:
I’d like to send this off by tomorrow (Sunday) evening- let me know what you think.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
HI John,Did you want to run this by the Chief Lamont for back up? Just a thought. Sheila Zacker
sheila
May 2, 2020, 10:26:31 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
You can add me to your list.
Pine Crest
Sheila Zacker
furpeople54
May 2, 2020, 10:43:42 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Barb Reese
riverside co playground rd.
Reverence for all Life
John Jacobs
May 3, 2020, 9:11:12 AMto Pine Crest Watch
I plan to send this letter off late this afternoon (Sunday), so that it is present in Dustin McClain’s email inbox Monday morning. If you wish to be added to the signatory list, please let me know no later than 3 pm today.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Valerie Hunt wrote on 5/2/20 10:03 AM: Please add our names: David Hunt – County Park Trails Volunteer Pine Crest Bud and Barbara Hunt – The Bike Route Pine Crest
cynthia.grassi
May 3, 2020, 10:42:01 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Cynthia Grassi pine crest ave
kakia15
May 3, 2020, 10:49:30 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Hey John, You can add Hal and me to the list. Hal and Meghan Carey
Pine Crest Cheers, Meghan
sheila26
May 3, 2020, 11:31:15 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Hi John, thank you for all your time, energy and concern with this matter. Please add my name to the letter. Sheila Kloss – Pine Crest Ave.
awesomethree2003
May 3, 2020, 3:43:36 PMto ‘Sheila Kloss’ via PC-RCPR Neighborhood Watch Info
Hey Campers, Please include Robert and Linda Stroud Pine Crest Avenue, . Chuck and Linda
John Jacobs
May 5, 2020, 10:15:41 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Anthony-
Can you update the local neighborhood on the current status of the Park? There have been several campers in the campground lately, and there is word that the policy is changing.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Miller, Anthony
May 5, 2020, 11:09:37 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Of course, John. Thank you for reaching out. Effective May 1st Camping was opened but strictly limited to self-contained units only; restrooms remain closed. We are not advertising the opening with so few sites that will accommodate we encouraged most to stay at other sites and locations, including Hurkey Creek, etc. No group camping or gatherings permitted at this point all must remain at their site, no campground visitors, etc. Lake Hemet was also opened under the same guidelines however they are operated by a separate entity than our campgrounds but for those looking for water recreation we are sending people that way. Essentially we are operating as a very small RV park at this time. We are awaiting further update following the Rivco Board of Supervisors meeting today. If interested please tune in here. https://www.rivcocob.org/board-of-supervisors
They are currently streaming public comment at this time.
May 5, 2020, 1:00:34 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Anthony- Thank you for the update. Please post up here when you learn of the impact of today’s Rivco Board of Supervisor’s meeting on Riverside County Parks, and especially, Idyllwild County Park.
John Jacobs
May 9, 2020, 9:11:21 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Anthony-
Yesterday’s contentious Board of Supervisor’s meeting resulted in a unanimous decision to rescind the major orders issued in the County during April (by Cameron Kaiser). Sheriff Chad Bianco has made it clear in several media sources that he will not enforce any kind of orders related to face mask use, or activities of business owners that flagrantly violate a State or County order. The County is apparently facing a $100 million budget shortfall. https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/05/08/riverside-county-covid-coronavirus/
The letter containing the support of a large number of local residents in direct proximity to Idyllwild County Park was emailed to Dustin McClain, Chief of the Parks Executive Team (cc’ing Chuck Washington’s office) last Sunday, May 2- that letter did not even receive the courtesy of a reply stating the letter had been received.
The leadership of Riverside County has clearly decided to prioritize the fiscal & revenue shortfall issues over the health and well-being of the residents- undoubtedly, these policies will continue to trickle into the park management policies, directly impacting how Idyllwild County Park is managed. Though you will be facing directives from the management above your position, as the Supervising Chief Ranger of these local parks, you do have some discretion in how they are implemented. Given that you have been very much in the loop of the thoughts of many local residents here, and as a resident of Idyllwild yourself, I hope that you will exercise that discretion to the greatest degree possible to respect the great concern many of us have around how Idyllwild County Park is being managed.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
kissmccann
May 9, 2020, 10:03:14 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Well put! Thanks, John. Safe Trip, Mike McCann
Miller, Anthony
May 9, 2020, 11:07:44 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Good morning, the news of the Board’s decision reached me this morning and conferring with our higher ups it does not change our current operations at this time. We are still educating guests as they arrive about face coverings and no gatherings/parties/events while self contained camping is permitted we are sending several home as they arrive and in the mornings if they show up in the middle of the night. As guests call we encourage them to come prepared and shop at home to limit the impact on limited supply in grocery stores, etc. I am augmenting what I can in the field to keep staff and visitors as safe as I possibly can while navigating a very fluid situation. There was a lot riding on that decision not knowing exactly which direction the Board and Governor we’re heading with their announcements I am sure he is working on responding shortly and wanting to take care as not to give you outdated information as these decisions can have significant impacts and they come swiftly. Please do not hesitate to reach out and work with me as I am communicating daily with the good and the bad and we are constantly making adjustments to the best of our ability.
furpeople54
May 9, 2020, 7:59:56 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
I was in county park today.
No one had face coverings on. I was the only one wearing a mask. With the state wide stay at home order still in place, the park had a bunch of people and town was packed. Everyone needs to get on the same page. The state says stay at home and yet everything else is pushing people to get back out there, including riverside county. Mixed messages make no sense. This is all very frustrating.
Reverence for all Life
John Jacobs
May 18, 2020, 7:29:31 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Dustin McClain, jcomerchero@rivco.org
Anthony-
Though the mere presence of *any* non-Idyllwild resident in the Park defeats (and violates) the purpose of the State’s ‘Stay at Home’ order (a fact that no-one in the Riverside County Parks system seems to want to acknowledge), the emphasis of responses from Riverside County Parks has continually been placed on how the Park(s) will be managed as they re-open. Your May 1 email stated that the Park would be managed using the following strategies:
“Effective May 1st Camping was opened but strictly limited to self-contained units only; restrooms remain closed. We are not advertising the opening with so few sites that will accommodate we encouraged most to stay at other sites and locations, including Hurkey Creek, etc. No group camping or gatherings permitted at this point all must remain at their site, no campground visitors, etc.”
In prior emails, you have emphasized that tent camping will not be allowed, visitors will be expected to wear masks and maintain appropriate distancing, and that restrooms will be closed. A walk-through of Idyllwild County Park on the evenings of Saturday, May 16, and Sunday, May 17 resulted in these observations:
*About 25 RV’s *2-3 camping tents *Group sites (far end of Park) completely full with RV’s, closely parked *Groups of people in close proximity (no social distancing) *No mask use was observed by any person, anywhere in the Park *Evidence of human waste in numerous locations on hillside above campsites 8-42 (I personally cleaned up one solid waste site very near the creek just south of the meadow, at the Idyllwild Pines property sign) *Park entry kiosk unattended at 5:30 Saturday evening (during highest visitation hours)- no patrolling Ranger was observed anywhere in the Park
Anthony, setting aside the central issue of the Stay at Home order and the implicit conflict the Park is creating by allowing non-Idyllwild resident visitors at this time, the management strategies you have described are clearly problematic and not being enforced. (All of the examples described above are illustrated in the attached images from last weekend.) This is creating a clear public health issue both in regards to COVID-19, and sanitation issues related to human waste.
The very busy Memorial Day weekend is quickly upcoming, and the Park (and town) will likely be extremely busy. Can you please respond with a strategy to address these very disturbing problems?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
kissmccann
May 18, 2020, 7:49:22 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
John, Thank you so very much for fighting a battle that the folks in charge don’t seem to care about! Be assured that we do care. Mike McCann Safe Trip,
davahunt
May 19, 2020, 5:55:38 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
WELL DONE JOHN!!!!
John Jacobs
May 22, 2020, 10:47:38 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Dustin McClain, jcomerchero@rivco.org
Anthony-
As we head into the busy Memorial Day weekend, I (and other local residents) would like to hear an update regarding the latest management strategies for Idyllwild County Park (especially in light of the problems identified over last weekend, described & documented in my May 18 post to this listserv).
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
Joe Chiosso
May 22, 2020, 12:36:23 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Dustin McClain, jcomerchero@rivco.org
How and when will the campground contact the town when one of their campers contracts Covid19, or if someone in Idyllwild has it and comes in contact with a camper. Where is the waste dump for the campers, they will need to go to a secondary location to dump their waste causing more interaction with more people. This puts a huge strain on the system while were all under A STAY AT HOME ORDER.
John Jacobs
May 27, 2020, 10:20:48 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Dustin McClain, jcomerchero@rivco.org
Anthony-
A walk through of Idyllwild County Park over last weekend (Memorial Day weekend, May 23-25) provided the following observations- on Saturday evening, around 6 pm:
*Campground appeared to be at a relatively low level of use for such a weekend- perhaps 20-25% capacity *Mostly RV’s or tent campers, though at least two tents were observed, appearing to be used for camping purposes *A ranger was observed driving through the campground (the entry kiosk was unattended) *The Group Area at the back of the campground was tightly packed *No mask usage was observed by any person
Perhaps more disturbingly, a walk-through of the areas around campsites 8-42 resulted in additional, extensive evidence of human waste- some of this ‘evidence’ was found in very close proximity to picnic tables and eating areas. The attached images (not for the squeamish!) are *not* the same location as those pictured from the weekend of May 16-17, 2020- they are *additional* locations (the ‘evidence’ from May 16-17 still remains in the same locations).
These observations are not in keeping with the Park’s stated policy of requiring mask usage, adequate spacing of camping, and non-allowance of tent camping. Of particularly great concern is the health and sanitation risk that is very much evident due to human waste in numerous areas in very close proximity to campsites (due to the closure of bathrooms).
This policy needs to be reconsidered immediately, Anthony. Whatever risk of COVID-19 infection that might be mitigated by the closure of bathrooms is being replaced and magnified by risks of bacterial, viral infection (i.e. Hepatitis A), and contamination of water sources due to the accumulation of human waste. Children play in these areas, and we all suffer the impacts of such contamination!
Please update us all on the Idyllwild County Park management strategies that are currently in place, or will be revised.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
May 27, 2020, 10:29:26 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
JohnI saw a blog from user LuLu from the town of Iddlywild..In her blog she was staying that town was packed all weekend and Not many mask were being worn not even by store owners. She basically said it was a normal weekend like nothing never happen and why did the town shut down if they were not going to use caution…..
kissmccann
May 27, 2020, 10:37:09 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.comJohn, This really is unacceptable! Thanks for all you are doing. Safe Trip, Mike McCann
Joe Chiosso
May 27, 2020, 11:45:53 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Sad to see this happening to such a beautiful park, The state park seems to have much more control of the situation, a much more professional staff appears to work there.
—————————————–
lannswanson
May 27, 2020, 12:30:55 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
John you should get a hold of the town crier and have them print it on the front page about them keeping the bathrooms closed and contaminating our drinking water in the creeks this is very important you should also contact the Idlewild water district because this is unacceptable being a property owner on Pinecrest Avenue makes me wonder what I’m drinkingJohn you should get a hold of the town crier and have them print it on the front page about them keeping the bathrooms closed and contaminating are drinking water in the creeks this is very important you should also contact the Idyllwild water district because this is unacceptable being a property owner on Pinecrest Avenue that maybe makes me wonder what I’m drinkingThank you for letting us know what’s going on LauraSwanson-Elliott
Sent from my iPhone
Miller, Anthony
May 27, 2020, 2:31:33 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, McLain, Dustin, jcomerchero@rivco.org
Good afternoon John, I took a hike back there and did some litter picking and though I saw several of the locations you mentioned, a lot appeared to have been cleaned up by the time I got eyes out there. No doubt that is a concern I do share, thus I plan to implement our SOP’s we will operate with restrooms open this weekend to mitigate the issue. I’ll be sending staff out to check back there as well, in order to pick up and clean up any existing messes we can locate. I appreciate you taking the time to let me know there is a developing problem back there so I can pass that along and work with the team to mitigate the issue. I do agree opening the restrooms up at this point (especially since we provide running water, and hands free dispensers for paper towels and hand sanitizing soap) is the right call. I spoke with those in the tents this weekend and they were attached to a motorhome RV unit with restroom facilities thus they were permitted this weekend (as they were part of a self contained unit). I turned away several others between the parks to keep populations down on what normally is quite a busy weekend. I have limited site availability by approximately 40% to keep us from selling out for the forseeable future. Some of the sites though they are adjacent will allow for more room between sites and the 6ft of social distancing between families (particularly in the back loop area) as they will allow families to be greater than 6ft apart. The discussion of opening to tent camping is ongoing, and may be a part of the discussions with restrooms opening, our leaders are currently discussing that strategy with the County Board of Supervisors as I understand. Here is a link to what we encourage guests to do in preparation for their visits to our parks in these times to update the community up in the rapidly changing environment we’re in. https://www.rivcoparks.org/post/rivcoparks-camping-best-practices-during-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic
May 28, 2020, 7:47:42 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, McLain, Dustin, jcomerchero@rivco.org
Thank you John for attempting to keep Riverside County Parks Management informed and accountable. It is clear that their actions don’t match their words. Assuming that their intentions are good, this park has been understaffed for years.
There has been a mountain lion sighting in our neighborhood- as I understand it, crossing Pine Crest, heading towards the Park, about two days ago.
I can’t remember the last time one was sighted so close to our area- maybe some longer-time locals can chime in. In the meantime, keep an eye on your pups and your cats!
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch 888.522.9001 Idyllwild, California 92549
sheila
Feb 2, 2020, 7:41:57 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Thanks for the update.
Sent from my iPhoneSheila Zacker
bossyb57
Feb 2, 2020, 7:49:01 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
We heard their was one up in area a few weeks ago… Iddlywild campground
Joe Chiosso
Feb 3, 2020, 10:50:22 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
