John Jacobs
Apr 1, 2018, 8:13:06 PMto Pine Crest Watch
This evening, Max (my dog, leashed) and I were on our regular walk along the Hillside Trail, and headed towards the main campground road. As we approached, across the road was a grey van in a campsite- I heard someone say ‘Come here’, and then a medium-large sized, unleashed dog came bolting towards us, at full speed.
I pulled Max’s leash to bring him behind me, and stepped in front of the dog, who went around me and knocked Max over, in full attack mode. I grabbed the dog by the skin, and he received a full airborne body slam. The dog was dazed for a second, then ran back towards the van. I had a very impassioned, angry interaction with the man, who said things like ‘he’s never done this before’. In understandably heated tones, I repeated that it is park policy & common courtesy to keep your dog on a leash. Max is ok…the dog definitely got into his back, but didn’t break skin…in fact, I got the worst of it with a bloodied finger, probably from the interaction with the dog.
I have experienced numerous near-misses with unleashed dogs over the years in County Park- though it’s a well-communicated Park policy, dogs are often (usually?) seen wandering the area and the trails unleashed. Two days ago with Max, I encountered two young men and their unleashed Pit Bull along the Hillside Trail. There have been numerous incidents where an unleashed dog aggressively approached/accosted Max & I in the Park.
I don’t think this is a failure of the Park management, as the leashing policy is as well-communicated here as it is in any other public park or campground. As usual, it is not the dog at fault, but the management of the owner, which is all-too-common in County Park (and elsewhere). I offer this incident report as a heads-up to other residents in the area who walk their dogs in & around the Park.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
888.522.9001
Idyllwild, California 92549
dianedarcy7
Apr 1, 2018, 8:33:20 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Glad you and Max are okay. If your cut is from dog bite, you may need antibiotics. Thanks for heads up. Diane
halesdl
8:46:41 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Thanks John. Makes me think twice about walking through the park by myself this summer. Maybe carrying pepper spray as a precaution??
furpeople54
,Apr 2, 2018, 8:44:06 AMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
I have encountered this as well. I actually emailed Anthony at the county parks about a year ago to have the rangers enforce this when they are around (because they weren’t). There were times a ranger would be right there with locals or visitors with their dogs off leash, and they would say nothing. Obviously a dangerous situation.
Reverence for all Life
kathystyles01
Apr 2, 2018, 4:11:04 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
I used carry a small high-power spray (I think it was citrus–not a pepper spray that can blow back on you and cause you as much harm as the attacker) after we were attacked by a rottweiler in our neighborhood down the hill. Clips on your belt. Sold at most pet stores. Probably a good idea to get some for when I’m in Idy–never know what might come out of those woods! Glad this ended about as well as it could have though!
Thanks for the info
Kathy
John Jacobs
,Apr 2, 2018, 6:41:33 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Today around 1 pm, I was sitting on the front porch eating lunch, with Max at my side. A young couple walked down the street, with their unleashed dog wandering the street. The dog spied Max, and crouched down, ears back, in ‘hunting’ mode.
The couple was now nearly in front of the house, and I approached them (at which point, their dog backed off). From the side of the street, I asked them if they would mind putting their dog on a leash, to which the young man said ‘yes, I would mind’. The dialogue escalated (deteriorated, more accurately) from there. The fact that Max trotted out to the street, unleashed, to see what the commotion was about, was not helpful.
They continued down Pine Crest, and I followed them, wondering where they lived- they were not familiar faces along this street. We wound up in ‘conversation’ again, just outside the gates of Idyllwild Pines.
Yesterday’s event still very fresh, the ensuing dialogue was not one of my shining, proud moments of articulate conflict resolution. Still, some of the principles that each of feel strongly about regarding this issue came forward- for them, they do not feel that their dog is a threat to anything ( they didn’t witness their dog’s stance as he spotted Max), they believe they have every right to allow their dog to wander freely on a public street, and that this is entirely appropriate in the mountain wilderness.
In impassioned, sometimes expletive-laced tones, I expressed my view that allowing dogs to wander freely puts their own dog and other people’s animals at risk, and that they are in a residential area, not ‘wilderness’, and that they have a responsibility to their dog and community to manage him appropriately.
As you might imagine, this ‘conversation’ did not progress productively, although I did wish them a good day as I left.
The issue of dog management is present anywhere you go, not just in Idyllwild. While dog-related issues seem to be on the rise here, they have been around for a long time- the increased visitor traffic, and communication amongst residents is simply magnifying the issue. I’m not at all certain what the best approach should be to mitigating this, though I do believe that giving timely, direct feedback when something is observed plays an important role.
If anyone knows the young couple in the attached photo, please let them know that I regret my tone and language, but stand firmly behind the underlying principles.
<photo deleted>
_________________________________________Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch888.522.9001Idyllwild, California 92549
furpeople54
Apr 2, 2018, 7:01:06 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
That dog is always off leash, no collar or tags. They are often in front of Village mkt with the dog off leash, right near the highway. Legally there IS a leash law in California. Period.
Reverence for all Life
kathystyles01
Apr 2, 2018, 7:08:33 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Post this picture and story on Facebook. “Peer pressure” can be very strong in social media, although this couple has a bit of the “we’re just wandering around” look. (AKA homeless)
Thanks for the info
John Jacobs
Apr 3, 2018, 3:11:12 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
I’ve learned that the couple seen yesterday walking down Pine Crest with their unleashed dog are local residents (see attached image). The young woman’s name is ‘B’, and the young man is named ‘M’s (edited names). The unleashed dog is named Stevie Nicks.
I did have a more rational discussion with B today at Higher Grounds, acknowledging that while the tone may have been regrettable, the underlying message is very firm: leashing dogs in public areas is simple common courtesy, in the best interest of the dog and other people’s property, and not doing so is in violation of both County and State leashing laws.
My sense is that she is still very much in opposition to the whole concept, and there may very well be an escalation of some sort related to this. We’ll just have to see how it plays out.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
888.522.9001
Idyllwild, California 92549
IMG_E2386.JPG
maramark
Apr 3, 2018, 5:22:24 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Hi all,
John, it seems like the experience in the park with the aggressive dog gave you a real scare- and for good reason! Mark and i were talking about the altercation you had with M and his girlfriend as well as the subsequent assumptions about them on this list.
We have known M for ten years now. He may look “homeless” or “wandering around” but he is far from it. He is a sweet, smart young man who holds a regular job in town. He also composes and plays music. He was a foreign exchange student in Switzerland a couple of years ago. He has always been kind and respectful in our experience of him.
We have seen M and his girlfriend numerous times in town with their dog who is never on leash and we have never seen the dog act aggressively in any way. We’re not saying this means they shouldn’t have the dog on a leash. But we are wondering if you might have misread the dog’s behavior when you assumed it had gone into attack mode.
John, you contribute much to the neighborhood trying to make it safer. You’ve also done great work on maintaining the trails. Mark and I are appreciative of your efforts.
Again we can see why you’d have such a strong reaction after you and your dog were bitten by the dog in the park. But we have to think that the manner in which you addressed this young couple made a difference in terms of the ensuing dialog. No one wants to be yelled at, and we suspect you gave them a bit of a scare too.
We hope that this situation does not escalate and that the parties involved will find a neighborly way to resolve this.
Mara and Mark
John Jacobs
,Apr 3, 2018, 6:51:44 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Mara-
In fact, Stevie (their dog) very clearly moved down into a crouching, predatory stance at the moment she spotted on Max on the porch- this was inarguable, no matter what recent events may have been. Neither B or M especially noticed it because Stevie was wandering around the street while the two of them talked together.
As always, it takes two people to create any kind of human dynamic, and M’s immediate reaction when I approached with a rational request if he would mind leashing his dog was a snarky and defiant ‘Yes, I do mind.’ The combination of their obstinancy and my communication ‘style’ escalated this event together.
This said, it should also be inarguable that there were far more effective ways for all people who were involved in that situation to have resolved it productively. And this is absolutely my first and primary wish for our Neighborhood Watch program.
However one feels about whether dogs should be allowed to roam, the bottom line is that there are clear leash laws in both Riverside County and the State that require leashing in any public place. I’m personally not keen on the fact that such regulations are necessary, but the very demonstrated reality of regular, increasing problems with unleashed dogs anywhere one goes makes me sadly agree they need to exist. The earlier years of my own dog ownership in this area certainly included leashless romps around County Park- the cumulative affects of personal experience with other people’s dogs, along with the dramatic increase in use of this area, has evolved a differing view.
More importantly than the laws, the safety and well being of the animal, other people’s animals, private property, and individual safety are the real priorities here. Stevie has been seen regularly roaming along the highways- her own safety is at risk due to an erratic driver (of which we know are too common these days), or if she is suddenly attracted by an animal, or spooked by a loud noise, into traffic. If another off-leashed dog is encountered (also too common these days), B has little chance of protecting Stevie without direct control. Walking dogs off leash on our local trails, where rattlesnakes are common, creates a much greater risk to the dog if there is no direct control over them (as has also occurred in recent years). Much as we all love our dogs and believe them to be exceptional, well-minded animals, there are many in society that don’t care for dogs under any circumstance, and do not want to be approached by them. (I’m using Stevie here only as an immediate example, given recent circumstances.)
Personally, I think it’s simply a matter of being respectful of the well-being of animals, other humans, and just plain being a good community member. I’m quite interested in the views of others in this regard.
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
888.522.9001
Idyllwild, California 92549
kathystyles01
Apr 3, 2018, 7:46:21 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Hi John:
This is exactly why people (i.e. me) hesitate to “remind” others to leash their dog (or pick up their poop). It’s not as if they “forget” to leash their dog (or pick up their poop)–they just don’t feel the rules apply to them. When someone asks even nicely to please leash up a dog (or pick up their poop), the offenders typically get defensive at best, downright nasty at worst.
I hope this does not “escalate” also, and perhaps Mara could help with that. Mara, since you have known this young man for some time, and obviously have the ability to see two sides to any story, perhaps you could remind him that, tone of this interaction aside, leashing one’s dog is not a matter of opinion. It’s the law and, as has been pointed out, for very good reason.
kissmccann
Apr 3, 2018, 10:02:34 PMto pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Re: Mara S.
“Neighborly way to resolve this.” Simple, leash the dog. Safe Trip,
