As I hiked the trails the other day, I noticed massive brush clearing that had taken place and huge slash piles everywhere! Many of the piles were very remote and would be very difficult to remove. What is the plan for these? If they remain, they will be more of a fire hazard than if the brush had simply been left in it’s natural state. In addition, the campground itself is being devastated by removal of live trees and bushes! Are the Manzanita that have been completely mowed down protected species? I’m not sure who is responsible for this ugly destruction, but the park has lost a great deal of it’s natural beauty. If it is being done in the name of fire mitigation, a much more efficient way to achieve this would be to ban all fires and BBQs permanently. Please fill us in on who is doing this, why it is being done and what the plan is for slash piles. Thanks!
Dave Hunt
Trails Volunteer
kyoshinvelez
Feb 13, 2023, 3:38:28 PM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Miller, Anthony
I hike several times a week in the county park, and live on Pinecrest avenue (and have owned the house there for 30+ years).
I would very much appreciate hearing the answers to the questions and observations posed here.
Perhaps a general meeting could be held to lend explanation to these questions.
Thank you in advance!
Valerie Velez
dawn.p…@gmail.com
Feb 13, 2023, 7:00:56 PM
I’ve very interested in hearing Anthony’s response to this question.
Dawn Papaila
Miller, Anthony
Feb 14, 2023, 9:51:43 AM
to Neighborhood Watch Notifications, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna
Good Morning,
Thank you for reaching out! Happy to help answer any questions.
This abatement is a part of the Red Hill Vegetation Management Program which has been ongoing for many years up here. Idyllwild Nature Center and Idyllwild Regional Park land fall under that program which is headed by Cal-Fire. In 2018 I was approached by Cal Fire representatives for a Right of Entry and I referred them to our Executive team and planning departments to review and work with them.
In the years prior to the work being performed Cal Fire headed up the planning, logistics, and funding for the project- including permits and approved scope for what kinds and how much vegetation to be removed. The work began late this fall around the Summit trail and Buckhorn camp, another partner who granted right of entry.
Similar work has been done throughout the rest of the mountain in various VMP’s over the years through Cal Fire, USFS, private property abatement, and our Fire Safe Council aids in coordinating those. One of note was performed 2 years prior to the Cranston Fire and was critical in protecting the Arts Campus and slowing the rate of spread and help save our town.
The work is not yet complete; They are continuing to cut, pile, and chip/remove piles. It is a large scale project with a grander scale and scope than our normal operations. The goal is not solely to mitigate risk from fire pits and BBQs, it is a broad vegetation management program aimed at reducing hazardous fuels, eliminating ladder fuels and raising canopies of trees.
It is no substitute for supervision-We are starting to complete new and improved camp host sites across the mountain to aid in improving supervision across the board. We continue our responsibility to be in lock-step with other agencies when they restrict fires in developed campgrounds so we do also.
I hope this helps explain the background and improves understanding of what is going on with the project.
to Neighborhood Watch Notifications, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna
Thanks Anthony! But again, how are the piles that are all over the hillside in very remote locations going to be removed? They are more of a fire hazard as a dry pile than as a living tree or bush. Also, do you approve of what they are doing in the campground? It is quite puzzling that you are trying to plant new trees while they are cutting down perfectly healthy ones as well as destroying the natural beauty that the campers come for.
Per our contacts at Cal Fire on the project this is what he stated is the plan for the piles:
“Most of the piles will be masticated/chipped, but there will be some on terrain that is too steep/rocky for equipment that will be burned (after a season of curing, so ideally next winter). This week the crew has been unable to work due to weather but I think if we get some clear weather, it should be done in about 2 weeks, 4 weeks at the latest given the current plan. “
It is my understanding that these fuel break projects are critical to the safety of our community. The trees that are being removed are generally dead, dying, or diseased. Fuel break projects such as these do take healthy vegetation down- but of a calculated size and to a calculated concentration for healthy forest growth. Immature trees that are out-competed by larger, mature trees can become part of the ladder fuel problem.
Too much vegetation can be catastrophic in the event of a wildfire, and our land is long overdue for some thinning by a responsible agency.
Per the 2022 Cal Fire/Riverside County Fire plan (attached) the goal for our region is as follows:
San Jacinto Mountains
• Reforestation efforts will help restore forest species, stand structures and composition back to uneven‐aged mixed conifer.
• Reforestation efforts will aid preventing erosion and protect water quality.
• Shaded fuel breaks are a method of protecting communities from catastrophic fire by removing (Brush) ladder fuels while retaining larger mature trees.
• Generally, Height growth is a function of tree genetics and site quality, while diameter growth is a function of stand stocking or number of trees per area.
• Fire behavior is a function of fuel, weather, and topography. The amount and type of fuel can betreated so that catastrophic fire isreduced.
• An overall goal of 40‐80 Trees per Acre (TPA) is recommended, CAL FIRE staff are currently working to educate the public on the concept of Basal Area/Acre as the preferred method for determining stocking standards.
• Our goal is to manage the watershed to result in a healthier fire safe forest and chaparral ecosystem.
In 2016/2017 we received a donation of pine and oak trees to be planted in each of our parks. This is not a continuous effort on our part at Idyllwild given the density of trees you are correct it would make no sense. Our energies in that department are focused more on Hurkey Creek and McCall.
I understand there is confusion and concerns and I hope I shed some light on them. I would hope and expect the natural beauty of our forest to be retained at the conclusion of work such as this-as well as being a good example of a healthy, well-managed forest ecosystem.
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Koeslag, Kalee
Anthony-
Thank you for this detailed response. This is a project that has been long overdue- the areas on the slopes north of Idyllwild County Park and up near the Summit Trail have dangerously high levels of brush that clearly creates a significant wildfire threat to the adjacent residences in the area, and Idyllwild as a whole. I am sometimes dubious about the concept of ‘forest management’, and the judgment around how it is conducted, but there is no question that the areas that are being mitigated in this project need attention. My primary questions about this project are related to how it was planned and being executed & monitored, and addressing the aesthetic and recreational impacts it is creating.
One aspect of this project that has my attention is the western boundary, where the County Park property borders Camp Emerson. Idyllwild Fire Department has placed a large water tank at the top of the Summit Trail (on Buckhorn property), with hoses that extend downhill through this area. Word from a crewperson with IFD is that the plan is to burn the slash piles in this area, and conduct prescribed burning of the area on Emerson property. Will these burns also be part of the plan for Idyllwild County Park?
Within County Park proper, the aesthetic and recreational impacts are quite dramatic- the areas that AAA Tree Service have cleared have many ragged stobs of the brush and small trees that were cut, and the chipped/masticated remains cover everything. The tracks of heavy equipment that was used have created many deep ruts throughout the area, and damaged large sections of existing trails. Where the clearing efforts came up against private property, there are large amounts of debris in many areas (esp. along the Papaila residence on County Park Road). Will the plans to deal with the remaining slash piles also include addressing the visible ground scarring related to the heavy equipment? What are the plans to repair the trails that have been damaged?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Thank you, John, for this message. We are concerned about the piles behind our property AND we need to ensure that their removal is done in a way that doesn’t damage our land in the process. My husband has spent years terracing the property to reduce erosion and ensure proper drainage around and underneath our house. So, we must be involved in any decisions that involve dragging equipment or material through our yard.
Dawn Papaila
Miller, Anthony
Feb 16, 2023, 11:01:07 AM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Koeslag, Kalee
Hey John,
The word on pile burning from Cal-Fire was as follows:
“Most of the piles will be masticated/chipped, but there will be some on terrain that is too steep/rocky for equipment that will be burned (after a season of curing, so ideally next winter). This week the crew has been unable to work due to weather but I think if we get some clear weather, it should be done in about 2 weeks, 4 weeks at the latest given the current plan. “
Chipped and masticated debris are generally left as ground cover and will decompose naturally and return nutrients to soil over time. The goal of the mastication is to reduce ladder fuels and create a gap between fuels on the forest floor and in the crowns of trees. I agree, many of the stumps of trees and bushes removed will need to be ground down further particularly along trails, recreational areas, and between campsites and road edges to mitigate aesthetic and recreational impacts. This will be done in time.
Our trail work we put on hold this Winter and will need to resume when weather clears and will be an ongoing effort to repair sections, install delineators/diversions to keep from cutting into private property or off trail. The work performed is not artfully done and it is my expectation that our staff will have to do some of the detail work and repairs with our team, the Adopt a Trail Crews, and/or any volunteer days events if there are any interested persons in volunteering with us.
If there are any private property concerns I invite the property owners to send me some pictures and/or we can set up a meeting in the near future to discuss areas of concern and how we can mitigate those concerns vs. letting the problems fester. Some meetings may identify areas that will be Parks’ responsibility to mitigate and others may simply be educational and understanding the work performed.
Please do allow some grace with me in scheduling these I will be out on bereavement for a week or so any day now, so my responses to those calls may not be immediate. My out of office reply will pop up and I will respond as soon as I am back in that event.
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Koeslag, Kalee
Dear all,
I really appreciate the whole conversation around this project, which I have observed as a resident and local hiker, but been uneducated and concerned, especially, as John pointed out, as to the level of restoration that is planned after the clearing and fire abatement is considered complete.
I have hiked, run and walked these trails and through the campground innumerable times in my 35 years of owning a home on Pinecrest Avenue, and am very hopeful and invested in the best possible outcome for the park and campground, grom fire safety, trail access and esthetic perspectives.
Please keep me in the loop, and I am very grateful that this information stream has been opened up.
Valerie Velez
Jacob Booher
Feb 16, 2023, 1:22:56 PM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Koeslag, Kalee
Neighbors,
This fire abatement project is critical to the safety of our neighborhood and the town overall, so I’m glad it’s happening. But I’m very disappointed that we, the affected community, seem to have been left in the dark about it.
We should not have had to stumble upon the gruesome-looking outcome of the project to learn about it; we should have been apprised of the project in advance and told what to expect of it. We should not have to ask for essentially after-the-fact explanations of why and how the project is being implemented; we should have already been provided Cal Fire’s documents summarizing the dire need for the project and explaining why the abatement approach Cal Fire picked is the best one feasible, taking into account the unique environmental, recreational, and cultural resources of the park. Those documents should detail how the project’s negative impacts on the park and its neighbors would be minimized or mitigated.
In December I submitted a Public Records Act request to Cal Fire asking for all planning and environmental compliance documents associated with this project. Cal Fire has yet to produce any documents to me. Assuming I receive records, I’ll be happy to share them.
Some time yesterday afternoon or evening, a vehicle apparently drifted off the road, colliding with the rock landscaping in the front of my yard.
Tire tracks can be seen in the foreground of the first picture, and the impact location of where the vehicle struck the first rock, forcing the other rocks forward. This vehicle must have been traveling at some speed, as the last rock on the corner is quite large, and it was forced a few feet out of location. The car apparently stayed along the berm, and a skid mark can be seen beyond the impact point as the car drifted back into the street.
Did anyone hear or see anything related to this collision? It would have occurred some time between 3 pm and 10 pm yesterday, Friday, February 10. If you heard or saw anything, please either post up by replying to this email, or contact me directly. Thank you, neighbors!
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Iva Botton
Feb 11, 2023, 1:09:40 PM
John, I did not hear or see the incident. I live at 54125 Pine Crest.
Iva Zander Botton
tracyphilippi
Feb 11, 2023, 3:38:26 PM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Need cameras?
John Jacobs
Feb 12, 2023, 11:26:50 AM
to Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
Yesterday, as I was repairing the damage due to this collision, a local resident walked by and acknowledged their car had drifted off the road and into the rock landscaping in my yard. There was an infant in the car at the time, who was uninjured. The vehicle sustained significant damage and had to be towed for repairs. No explanation was provided as to what caused the car to drift off the road.
There have been other similar incidents like this in the past- several years ago, a car drifted off the road and into the open space in my front yard, hitting a piece of re-bar that was placed there to deter parking and turnarounds (which are frequent in this area). Cars drifting towards the edge of the road as they come down Pine Crest is a relatively common occurrence- there is always excessive speed associated with them, and usually a driver is observed with their eyes not directly on the road. (There were two such incidents as I was repairing this damage from alongside the road.)
If you are a regular pedestrian along this section of Pine Crest, keep your eyes out, and consider walking to face oncoming traffic, especially if you have children or dogs with you!
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Besides the tagging that has occurred recently in the neighborhood, graffiti has been an ongoing problem at Idyllwild County Park. A few years ago, many of these incidents were discussed in a email thread (now posted at the Neighborhood Watch website): https://pinecrestwatch.org/idy-county-park-abuses-aug-2018/
One site was particularly difficult to remove, due to its location- along the Summit Trail, close to half a mile from either the Nature Center or the Campground.
The ‘mural’ is about 2.5′ x 5′. An attempt was made to remove it in January 2021, accessing it through a homeowners property that was about 1/4 mile from the site- this required a pressure washer, about 30 gallons of water, graffiti removal solution, and hand tools- the site is about 1/4 mile from the closest road, and the homeowner provided permission to access through their property, and use water from their home. The result was only partially successful:
And annoyingly, another site was found nearby with more graffiti:
Another large yellow & green ‘mural’ was found on this same rock, around the corner- apparently from the same person.
About two weeks ago, another attempt was made to remove them all, this time using the powerwasher and more water (50 gallons) and a product that a neighborhood resident suggested- once again, hiking all this equipment to the site via the homeowners property. This attempt was much more successful:
(The second mural located on the side of this boulder also received a removal attempt that was partially successful.)
It’s really quite astounding that anyone would go to a natural environment like Idyllwild in order to deface it with spray paint, but the fact that they would go to the trouble of hiking in a significant distance and carry those spray cans with them only leaves one even more baffled.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Dawn Papaila
Oct 10, 2022, 5:45:34 PM
Thank you, John. I know very few people who would take such initiative to restore these beautiful boulders to their natural state. And, by doing so, you lessen the chances that people will be inspired to copy these awful examples. You are truly a steward of the park.
It is indeed baffling that someone would take the concept of “street art” and apply it to a natural setting in a forest. My heart just breaks when I see such ignorance and lack of respect for the natural environment.
I feel like an old fogey but back when I was young, it would have been completely uncool to litter in the forest, let alone, paint rocks!
The crying Indian PSAs all over TV taught us to respect Mother Earth. (okay he wasn’t really an Indian and that’s a whole different issue that has begun to resolve…I hope)
I will also take this opportunity to thank Dave Hunt for his letter to the editor in the Crier. I’m still dumbfounded that anyone would seriously suggest that we cut down all of the cedar trees in Idyllwild. Can you imagine? What? That’s just insane. I’m imagining that someone with the right technological savvy could use satellite imagery to demonstrate the enormous negative impact that would have on the forest. It is my understanding that we are in a transition zone and that cedar and oak are our future overstory. (BTW – The Overstory is another fabulous book about trees!)
Anyway. This became a long email that was really meant to simply say thank you.
At some point in the last year or so, some graffiti tagging & stickers have appeared on numerous road signs- in particular, they have been found on Pine Crest (from Maranatha to Riv Co Play Rd), and along Riv Co Play Rd to the Park entrance.
John Jacobs
Aug 4, 2022, 4:10:52 PM
Unfortunately, more tagging of the same type has continued to appear in our neighborhood- in fact, the same tagger has extended out on to the highway, tagging the same County road signs, Idy Water District signage, and sometimes signs on private property. It was hoped that the tagging I described and photographed in late May had been there a while, but I have noted new ink pen tagging of the same type on signs that had been cleaned two months ago. I just returned from another removal tour- it is hoped that doing complete and immediate removal of such tagging will dis-incentivize the tagger. As before, please post up if you see anything in our neighborhood.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
furpeople54
Aug 4, 2022, 6:28:54 PM
Thanks John, for cleaning it up.
Reverence for all life…
Byron Grams
Aug 4, 2022, 9:00:13 PM
Nice job John.
If you like, I can supply another can of Goof-Off and a box of rags if this becomes more of an issue.
B
John Jacobs
Sep 29, 2022, 6:18:05 PM
New tagging was found on the reflector sign on Riv Co Play Rd:
It also cleaned off easily with Goof Off.
Equally annoyingly, the website information sign that sits under the Neighborhood Watch sign at the intersection of Pine Crest and Riv Co Play Rd has been vandalized twice by folding it over:
I was able to push it back into alignment both times. But today I noticed that the same sign at the very end of Pine Crest has been vandalized with black sharpie, and the website info sign has been completely torn off:
There have long been observations of odd behaviors down in that cul de sac over the years. A neighbor mentioned today that a large bag of marijuana was seen lying on the ground there a few days ago.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549
Thank you for the info re: our signs being vandalized. We each need to keep an eye on our neighborhood. I personally don’t understand the why of the person/s who have done this. Willing to listen if they should choose to share.
Iva Zander Botton
Safe travels near and far; clarity in every season, peace in every journey and comfort in the knowledge of the love of God.
John Jacobs
Oct 3, 2022, 10:54:28 AM
About two years ago, these information signs were added to all of the Neighborhood Watch signs in our area- they are intended to provide more information for those who have interest in the program, or wish to join:
About three weeks ago, I noted that the one of the signs located at the intersection of Pine Crest and Riv Co Play Road had been folded over:
I pushed it back into place, but within a few days someone had folded it back over. Once again, I pushed it back into place.
Last Thursday afternoon, I noted that the Neighborhood Watch sign located at the far end of Pine Crest had been vandalized with black sharpie marker, a sticker, and the information sign had been torn off:
The next morning (Friday, Sept. 28), I noted that the three informational signs located near the intersection of Pine Crest & Riv Co Play road had all been vandalized, and torn off their locations:
I found some (but not all) of the remains of the signs thrown into yards near their posted location:
Other signs located at the entry points to our neighborhood have been untouched.
The motivation for this vandalism is unclear, but it is the latest incident in an ongoing string of petty events like this (i.e. recent graffiti tagging). Probably a good idea to keep a more vigilant eye out for such behaviors around the neighborhood.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Dan Papaila
Oct 3, 2022, 11:55:26 AM
Thanks for the info John, Greatly appreciated!
Dan & Dawn Papaila
John Jacobs
Oct 6, 2022, 12:35:13 PM
Many thanks to Dave Hunt for repairing one of the vandalized signs and reinforcing the replacements with angle metal. It’ll be much harder to tear them off again…there’s also a blob of grease on the back of the signs…if anyone grabs them, they’ll get a slimy surprise!
The vandalized signs around the intersection of Pine Crest & Riv Co Play Rd have been repaired/replaced. The one down at the end of Pine Crest will probably get a replacement in a week or so. Please keep an eye on the signs anywhere in the neighborhood, and post up if something seems amiss.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549
As noted a few weeks ago, the website information signs were replaced after Dave Hunt reinforced them (and paid for them). All have remained intact since that time, with the unfortunate exception of the sign at the very end of Lower Pine Crest (adjacent to Idyllwild Pines Camp). Yesterday, it was noted that the Neighborhood Watch sign itself had been torn away from its sign post:
Before:
After:
The ‘Before’ picture above shows this sign several weeks ago after the website information sign had been vandalized, and the Neighborhood Watch sign itself had been vandalized with stickers and a sharpie marker scrawled across it. The website information sign that is still remaining (‘After’ picture) is one of the signs Dave reinforced to reduce vandalism- apparently this worked, as it remained intact!
It is not clear as to who or why these signs have been vandalized in this manner- please watch for unusual behaviors in the neighborhood, and post up with anything that is observed or learned.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
kathystyles01
Nov 3, 2022, 2:01:27 PM
Anybody with residential cameras that might be temporarily aimed at signs to help identify the culprit?
Thanks for your work on this.
Kathy Styles
Byron Grams
Nov 3, 2022, 5:32:47 PM
I will see if I can spin one around to watch the one out front of my place.
I might have to run some extra wire to get a good view, but it would be worth it to find out what is going on.
I just noticed that the fence / gate to the driveway next to our house is cut (see photo). I don’t know how to get in touch with the owners. I guess I’ll try the Cable Company. But perhaps they’re on this group.
Dawn Papaila
Dawn Papaila
Sep 23, 2022, 3:15:25 PM
I just called the Cable Company and they’re calling the brother of the owner of the house. She’ll be notified soon.
FYI
Dawn
John Jacobs
Sep 23, 2022, 3:30:04 PM
I’ve heard chainsaw activity in that direction (from my house) much of today- hard to tell if it’s been specifically from that property, though. The property owners have been doing some clearing of that property in the last year or so- this may (or may not) be related.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
furpeople54
Sep 23, 2022, 4:11:24 PM
Oh wow! That’s not good. Barb
Reverence for all life…
Dawn Papaila
Sep 23, 2022, 8:39:21 PM
The chainsaws were from two trees that Anthony had removed from the park property behind our house. It was a stunning thing to watch. One tree was felled towards the trail – completely whole. I was watching it fall when I noticed the cut in the gate.
The other tree was limbed and taken down in sections. Quite a log jam on our short cut to the trail.
💜Dawn
Dawn Papaila
Sep 23, 2022, 10:18:19 PM
Also, I want to be clear that I asked Anthony if he could have those dead trees removed. He added tide two trees to the other work he needed done by the tree service.
Keep an eye on the fire in Hemet. WatchDuty.org has a good app. The winds yesterday were erratic and this is the type of fire that can turn toward us. It has happened before.
Dawn Papaila
John Jacobs
Sep 6, 2022, 8:06:04 PM
Dawn-
That’s a pretty good app! Lots of useful information there- thanks for the share…
Doesn’t seem that the Fairview fire is likely to threaten Idyllwild, but Anza is probably very nervous right now.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Dawn Papaila
Sep 8, 2022, 8:35:25 AM
to Neighborhood Watch Info
Hi Neighbors,
The “captains” of the Pinecrest Neighborhood Watch group received a phone call from someone requesting information about the fire.
The best way to stay informed is to download the WatchDuty app and turn on notifications. Fairview Fire
The fire is at approximately 19,000 acres and still 5% contained. The road to Hemet (74) is closed just before Valle Vista. We are not on evac watch or order at this time. Winds are predicted to blow away from us with speeds in the teens and higher this afternoon.
Personally, I’m a bit apprehensive of the winds that will accompany the approaching storm and yet we obviously welcome the high potential for rain.
Some noteworthy changes have occurred around Idyllwild County Park in the last several months- can you provide some commentary on the following conditions?
Fire preparedness
There are several fire ‘stations’ in locations around the park- a red-painted frame, with a bucket (presumably for extinguishing). What is the thought around how these stations are constructed and placed? Where did the impetus to install these locations come from?
Weed abatement
The area below Campsites 10-13 have received weed abatement treatment- I assume this is to mitigate fire risk? Are there plans to treat other areas of the park the same way? What method of abatement was used?
Meadow area
The meadow has been impacted in several areas- much of the eastern end (near the bathrooms and parking area) has been scraped down to dirt, halfway to the point of the row of logs. Is there some kind of project that is being planned for this area?
The water plumbing through this area have been made functional again (at least to a couple of spigots)- are there plans to expand this water system in this area? Is there some kind of plan for the use of these water sources?
The access trail along the south side of the meadow has been enhanced to more of an actual rough road. Along this ‘road’, to the horse trail along the south side (in the area of the grove of trees where the controversial BBQ’s were installed), and the entire west end of the meadow have been mowed extensively. What is the reason for this extensive impact?
Recently, I have encountered locals in the Idyllwild area that have expressed interest and efforts in utilizing the meadow area for special events, festivals or other gatherings. Historically, the Park has protected this area from such events in the interest of the natural riparian function of the meadow. Are there plans to change this policy, and allow such events? Are the changes described above related to plans for such future uses?
Trails
Some of the trails (mostly those in closest proximity to the campground) have received improvements such as trimming and installation of erosion water bars. There are other trail sections that are especially in need of trimming (i.e. Summit trail section). What are the current plans regarding trail maintenance? What agency is doing this trail work?
Tagged oak trees
There are numerous oak trees in various areas around the park that have been tagged with pink & black flagging tape, with a code number on them. Is this an inventory system, or have they been identified for removal due to infection with Golden Spotted Oak Borer?
Supervision
What is the status of the campground host at the Park? There is a trailer located up hill above the entrance station- is this a temporary campground host, or permanent resident? The ‘normal’ Host campsite appears to have a trailer there- is this a Host? What is the schedule on their supervision availability in the Park?
Was an additional, full time Ranger ever hired? At this time, and in the coming summer season, will Park staffing be at an increased level compared to the 2020 season? Or at the same or lower level?
Your comments on these changes would be appreciated by many interested residents in the area near Idyllwild County Park.
________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riv. Co. Play. Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California. 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
jasrhume
May 3, 2022, 12:03:54 PM
Hi John,
Thanks for sending me your latest email to Anthony plus the related thread.
Your significant efforts on our behalf are greatly appreciated.
– James Hume
54017 Playground Rd
Sent from my iPhone
awesomethree2003
May 3, 2022, 1:55:47 PM
Since the summer of 2006, the Park policy is “No Organized Events In Meadow.” Hence the posted signage to the right of the restrooms. Chuck Stroud
dianedarcy7
May 3, 2022, 9:45:02 PM
The Easter egg hunt of ICC was held in the meadow this year. Pictures were in Town Crier.
stacyoates
May 4, 2022, 12:05:48 PM
Anthony,
We too have had many discussions of concern for the status of the Idyllwild County Park with much of the neighborhood. John addressed many of these concerns, but we do have additional questions.
We realize that you are overextended being in charge of multiple parks and can’t give Idyllwild your full attention. Who then is in charge of the decision making and day to day supervision? It seems that the Work Release Program has been providing groups on a regular basis, which could prove a great blessing for the park. Who provides them with instructions and supervises the work? It seems that a majority of the work they provide is unsupervised and revolves around the area before the guard shack, adjacent to our property. We have 2 children and the constant barrage of foul language coming from these groups, well within earshot of our property, is becoming problematic. Couldn’t the additional man power be dispersed throughout the park, addressing the great amount of deferred maintenance?
There is also the concern of environmental impact to the entire campground. John addressed multiple issues within the meadow, which we also have been very curious about. What is going on with the multiple pine trees that have been cut down and strategically placed in different campsites? It looks as though borders are being created? Were these dead trees? Were they checked for any type of infestation prior to being cut down and then left on the property? Are healthy trees being cut down solely for the purpose of creating borders?
A couple of weeks ago a crew was directed to dig up the Irises and Daffodils in the parking lot, to be replanted along the hillside below the new camp host site. Up until last year when this same hillside was decimated to open up the view of this host site, it was very naturally landscaped with healthy Vinca and Manzanita trees. This same crew also dug up and replanted multiple Manzanita trees around the guard shack. Do you know if these particular plants can survive being uprooted and replanted in the Spring, when just beginning to bloom?
Can you provide some insight as to what this project is for? Is it a parking space? It is located past sites 10-13 at the top of the hill on the left. If creating a new parking space, shouldn’t it be built by someone with the knowledge to properly secure such a project? And what is the necessity? This again makes me wonder who is supervising and authorizing the work that is being done?
The serenity and natural beauty of the park is what draws people to camp and visit and it would be very sad to lose all of what makes it so special and unique. I hope that any future projects can be looked at with more concern to the preservation of the existing environment.
In regards to campfires, we often ride through the campground on Sundays after campers have checked out. We routinely find multiple campfires still smoking or extremely hot, and have extinguished 13 or more in one pass through. As we approach summer, will these be monitored more closely by the staff? We are very avid campers and observe at all other campgrounds, camp hosts cleaning, raking and maintaining sites after campers check out. Could checking fire rings of the recently vacated sites be a duty performed by the camp host?
Speaking of the camp hosts directly next to our property, we never did get an answer to our question of how the park is better served having them outside of the campground. I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that the duties of a camp host include providing maintenance such as cleaning bathrooms and individual campsites, but very importantly being available to campers to answer questions, provide guidance and make sure they are following the rules of the park, such as generator use, observing quiet times and most importantly, responsibly having campfires. Wouldn’t a camp host have better success in providing service and observing campers by being at a spot inside of the campground? There are three established camp host sites within the campground that would have been better suited to these duties. Having hosts 12 feet off of our property line has eliminated our privacy and greatly impacted our quality of life. My direct email and texts have gone unanswered, and the only comment we’ve received with our many concerns is that they were put here to “have more eyes on the park.” Leonard is a full time resident directly next door to these hosts with eyes on the exact same portion of the park. Can you please answer our question of how the park is better served with the hosts in this location? Can you outline the duties of a camp host so we can have a better understanding?
Thank you for your consideration in answering all of our questions. I hope together we can preserve and maintain the park in the most natural way possible.
Stacy Kretsinger
54020 County Playground Road
Jacob Booher
May 5, 2022, 10:04:58 AM
Hi Neighbors,
I agree with many of these concerns and am very interested in seeing the Park’s answers.
I am particularly frustrated that the Park converted a significant portion of the meadow into a parking lot. Worse yet, it appears they did so in violation of the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), which obligates the Park to evaluate the impacts of projects like this before implementing them. Such an evaluation includes providing the public notice of the proposed project and an opportunity to comment on it, then carefully considering and responding to all public comments. The Park’s evaluation of a proposed project must also generally consider alternatives to their proposal. Here, the Park should have considered–with our input–accommodating more snowplay guests by some other method than grading the meadow. In rare circumstances a public agency’s project may be exempt from CEQA, but the agency must formally document that determination and file a Notice of Exemption with the County Clerk’s Office and the State. None of us received advanced CEQA notice of this parking lot expansion project and I have not been able to locate a Notice of Exemption on the County Clerk’s or State’s website. The Park may be able to provide insight into their believed or actual CEQA compliance, but from what I can tell they violated CEQA.
Does anyone remember when, exactly, the grading occurred? A CEQA violation like this remains actionable for 180 days. I am not suggesting we take any particular action, only sharing what I know as an environmental attorney about our options to keep the Park accountable to the public and the environmental resources they steward on the public’s behalf.
Sincerely,
Jacob Booher
54055 County Playground
Dawn Papaila
May 5, 2022, 10:07:18 AM
Hi John, Diane, Stacy and our other neighbors,
I really appreciate that all of you have taken the time to detail your concerns. If Anthony does not reply to these detailed questions, then I suggest that this thread be copied to his boss and also to Chuck Washington. Perhaps we should try to organize a neighborhood meeting with Anthony in late May or early June. Let me know if I can be helpful.
Dawn Papaila
Dawn Papaila
May 5, 2022, 10:13:23 AM
Hi Jacob,
Thank you for your expertise. I do not know the date that the grading occurred but it seems to me it must have been within that window but we might be at the tail end. I believe that Diane D’Arcy gathered the information about protected designation of the meadow. John may have that information on the Google Group site.
Dawn Papaila
awesomethree2003
May 5, 2022, 12:23:18 PM
Again, refer to the Park use policy changes from 2006. Occupancy in the meadow is limited to existing parking only at that time. Friends of San Jacinto Mountain County Parks, Center for Biological Diversity, Idyllwild Environmental Conservancy, Soboba Band of Cahuilla, represented by Katherine Saubel and Alvino Siva, Dr. Michael Hamilton UC Riverside, and many Idyllwild property owners were instrumental. Whoever disturbed the meadow by any grading or modifications may well be in multiple violations. Chuck Stroud
John Jacobs
May 5, 2022, 2:09:36 PM
This photo taken 20 minutes ago:
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549
I wanted to follow up with you on your concerns and let you know where the park is at with several issues brought up this week:
Meadow:
There are no planned projects underway in the area adjacent to the day use parking lot; and nothing has yet been approved for the foreseeable future. If or when any projects are planned or approved they will go through proper channels.
This past winter, we did clear snow from the area to park additional vehicles for snow play. We have parked vehicles adjacent to the paved parking lot over the years when visitation is heavy or when a small event is approved in the park. This is done to minimize traffic back up along County Playground Road toward Pine Crest and to and keep the park roads clear for emergency vehicles during such visitation. We do keep the day use areas along the perimeter of the meadow/trail area/under power lines mowed for fire safety.
Water spigots have had water restored to existing infrastructure which is in place for day use visitation and for access to water to extinguish BBQs in the area.
Events must be approved in advance through the department and take into consideration the number of parking spaces, the plumbing/restroom capacity, and impacts to the meadow. Small events such as weddings and the Easter Egg Hunt in 2019 and 2022 have been approved in recent years and steps are taken with the event coordinators to keep the event restricted to day use areas and other areas of the park. If an event is too large to be accommodated without major impacts it is steered to other facilities with greater capacities.
Fire Preparedness:
Fire Bucket Stations have been installed throughout the park (and at restrooms) for convenience of guests to provide a bucket to extinguish their campfires and address the issue of guests not properly extinguishing campfires. Alongside the buckets are signage in English and Spanish. Stacy’s observation that guests do not do a good job extinguishing fires in fire pits at check out is exactly why we want to provide the tools to do so. They are not a substitute for check out patrols by Rangers and Camp Hosts-but another tool to educate guests.
Weed abatement is ongoing- We are utilizing our Work Release Crews (in addition to other projects) to weed abatement in the park with string trimmers and other equipment used to trim weeds back from campsites (up to and beyond the 10ft Cal-Fire clearance for fire rings). Trimming weeds back and from between campsites and other areas that may be utilized by campers helps overall preparedness for visitation as our fuel moistures decline as the Summer dry season moves upon us. This includes the areas below the campsites 10-13, behind site 95, etc.
Trail Maintenance:
Parks Staff (between Idyllwild Regional and Idyllwild Nature Center) have a shared interest in maintaining the trails between the parks. Several small projects have been completed this year with our crews and we continue working with the budgets and time our small team has.
This past month we received good news I worked with Idyllwild Nature Center Ranger to apply for some funds for 3rd District Trails and we received a small grant to fund some erosion control water bars, brushing equipment (Saws. Trimmers, etc.) as well as funding a viewpoint closer to the Nature Center. We are working on utilizing those funds which are a welcome bonus and expand what we are able to do this year as opposed to stretching the work out over multiple years. We will be updating signage and trail marker maps between our sites as well over the course of this project.
The trails do remain open for adoption if anyone is interested I am more than happy to send information to them and connect with our Trails Coordinator.
Tagged Oak Trees: We are coordinating with the Mountain Communities Fire Safe Council for Gold Spotted Oak Borer treatment and/or tree removal for trees that are dead or so severely infested it is not feasible to save them. The trees are being inventoried and mapped and treatment should be happening before end of June. They are administering grant funds to slow spread and track progress of the insect on the mountain and we certainly wish to participate and help any way we can.
Staffing/Supervision:
The Permanent Ranger position for Idyllwild Park that was approved is not yet recruiting but will be shortly. There are a number of vacant positions in the County and Parks and the HR department can only process so many recruitments at a time but it is high on the list compared to some other positions I’ve discussed with other SupervisoDistrict. We are fortunate.
In the interim, we are proceeding with hiring another Temporary Park Ranger to replace the one who promoted into a position with Homeland Security; HR stated they are nearly ready to start. I will begin training them ASAP. We are interviewing Park Attendants next week to replace our promoted Park Attendant.
I have spoken with crew leaders about foul language from Work Release Participants it is part of their agreement/sentence to abide by our rules and if they are not representing us well I asked staff to dismiss them and send them back for re-assignment when they observe the behavior.
Camp Host Sites:
Over the past two years we have completed several key repairs to the camp host sites that did not have functioning utilities for hosts. Previously only the two camp host sites had sufficient hook ups for full time living.
There are a lot of questions about why the hosts by County Playground Road are located there and not further into the campground. Short answer-the other sites were not ready yet.
Over the past year or so, We completed the upgrades and repairs to the upper host site across from Site 1 first, then the host site by County Playground Road, and finally this past month we completed the electrical repairs and installed a new pedestal at 36.
We agree there were too many host sites up front and not enough within the park. In order to accommodate the power demand for site 36, we needed to eliminate the lower host site (across from site 1). The electric infrastructure requires significant upgrades that have not yet been funded to accommodate more sites (e.g. Site 64)
With Site 36 now move-in ready I have an additional host recruited and processing hopefully they can process before Memorial Day that depends on how fast the background checks are processed.
Camp Hosts are responsible for scheduled 20 hours per week for each site. Each day has the same routine to be followed of a park check (and fire ring check) with restrooms. Some hosts work more in the checkstand than others depending on park needs and skillsets. Some assist in the supervision of Work Release Crews on their assigned projects.
Brian and Stacy I apologize for leaving you unsatisfied with my answers to why the host site was reactivated up front I hope this helps clear things up.
Project Assignments:
I meet with staff individually around once per week and touch base making sure they have enough time to accomplish their routine tasks in the park (Restrooms, fire ring patrol, etc.) and go over some of the small projects and assignments I’d like them to proceed on. This is when they also report issues and things they see and discuss a plan with me before proceeding. To address some of the specific project concerns:
Trees that show signs of infestation are transported to the Idyllwild grinding station for processing. We do use logs in the park for borders, site delineation, erosion control, etc.
Vinca is a common ground cover up here but is not a native species and has a pretty dense root system that isn’t friendly to other plants in the area. It is considered moderately invasive.
We are transplanting plants/trees located in troublesome areas (growing into a road, driveways, proximity to fire pit, etc.) rather than just cutting them down or trimming them so significantly their mortality as at risk.
Certain planters and locations are overgrown and we chose to transplant some of those plants to other areas where they would be more visible/appear more intentional.
The “Parking” by site 10-13 is a placement for a dumpster during peak visitation. The logs that were previously there were rotting and we were losing the hillside to erosion so staff are re-building up that area so the dumpster does not protrude into the roadway and create a traffic hazard or slide down a hill if someone pushes/drives into it.
With the increased visitation this wonderful weather is bringing our regular Spring/Summer visitation. Focus on the restrooms cleanliness, fire pit and BBQ cleaning (and proper extinguishing) is imperative. During the week and during Friday/Saturday Patrols I ask staff and hosts to keep eyes open and extinguish/clean fire pits in addition to the major weekly cleaning occurring on Sundays/Mondays.
Each Sunday staff, camp hosts, and Work Release make rounds through the park and pour water if necessary and begin the cleaning of fire pits. With check out being 1:00PM our first round with Work Release is scheduled around 1:30 after the crew completes their first round of assignments and lunch break. I have a camp host starting at 11:00AM who is assigned to start up front and work their way to the back. Staff are instructed to triple back and verify.
I hope this answers some of your questions and I’m happy to elaborate if necessary as there were a lot of questions and a lot of ground to cover.
Thank you as always for your vigilance and your help keeping the community safe.
Thank you for the detailed response. I do have further questions regarding some of these matters.
Meadow area The eastern end of the meadow (between the logs and the paved parking lot) is being used as a parking area- to do so, this required scraping the plant life from the soil. At least 2/3 of this area has been scraped to dirt level:
This kind of development and use of this area fairly decimates the natural ecosystem that existed there previously- as is well known and documented, this area is part of the riparian meadow (even if the logs were placed there to arbitrarily separate it). Jacob commented that such a use is likely required (subject to CEQA) to go through a formal evaluation process, including a public commentary period. To my knowledge, no-one in this area was notified of such an evaluation/commentary process. Was this conducted by Riverside County?
The south side (where the BBQ’s are) and the west end have been heavily mowed this year- much more heavily than in years past. This picture was taken Wednesday, May 4, of a ride-on mower being used to mow the west end of the meadow (which had already been heavily mowed well before this time):
Why are these areas being so heavily mowed this year? There can be no doubt this impacts the ecosystem of this riparian environment.
Your comment: ” If or when any projects are planned or approved they will go through proper channels. “ At what level do the modifications that are being made to this meadow require a CEQA evaluation? Mowing? Installation of BBQ’s & picnic tables? Scraping all plant life to bare dirt?
The progression of impacts to this meadow may not be as notable to you, as you have only been at this Park for a limited period, but the residents around it have watched these changes go on for decades. Every year, something new happens that encroaches a little further than the previous project. The meadow is now hemmed in by development and mowing on all sides, and more dramatically impacted than ever before.
Staffing/Supervision This is of obvious concern and priority to all who live adjacent to the Park, and has long been a problem. Two years ago a permanent position was being negotiated by RivCo Parks, and you had communicated it was in process. (See email string below from 2020.) You are now stating that the permanent position has been ‘approved but has not begun recruiting’. What in the world is the hold up with this process? A(nother) very dry, dangerous fire season is upon us, and literally 95% of wildland fires are human caused- many are related to recreational users. Supervision is absolutely critical- what is the hold up?
Camp Hosts It is good to see the increased number of Hosts in the Park- moving one of these Hosts to the platform near Site 36 is quite logical, and eventually having one at Site 64 will be helpful. Since Host Site located outside the Park (immediately to the Kretsingers) does not directly serve the supervision need, why does the Park feel this Site is necessary? You mention that a new Host is in the approval process for Site 36- why not simply move the current Host (at the less logical location) to the Site 36 Host Site?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
stacyoates
May 10, 2022, 5:36:04 PM
Anthony,
Thank you for responding and answering some of the questions and concerns addressed. I would appreciate some clarification on a few points still.
Fire Preparedness –
I understand the placement of the red buckets throughout the campground. Are campers educated upon check in of their responsibilities towards camp fires and how to properly
extinguish them? They may see the red buckets but not read the signage in place, realize what they are for, or understand the great risk of wildfire to our mountain. Could some sort of informational
paperwork be handed out as campers check in? This could include relevant information about respecting and preserving the campground as well as responsibly having fires. There is quite often
no one in the guard shack when guests arrive. In this instance, could camp hosts deliver paperwork and go over proper safety protocols with guests?
Environmental Impact –
You covered the question in regards to the tagged Oak trees, yet I am still unclear as to the Pine trees being used to create borders. Are these dead trees? If so, have they been inspected for
infestations? Are live, healthy trees being cut down for the purpose of creating borders?
I don’t quite understand the necessity or benefit of the removal and replanting of much of the remaining plants and flowers, whether they be native or non-native to the area. Very healthy and
thriving rosehip bushes were removed near the exit of the guard shack, which are native to the area. This was a number of years ago. The wildflowers at the end of the campground
were recently destroyed by the tractor, ironically in between the two “please don’t pick the wildflowers” signs. The Iris’ and Daffodils that were relocated are not doing well. I again urge you to
consider the environmental impact of these decisions in the future. Though there really is nothing left to eliminate, minus a few lilac bushes in the parking lot.
Camp Hosts –
Maybe you answered this but it wasn’t clear to me; is the upper camp host site across from site 1 actively occupied by camp hosts? Are the people living there providing service to the
campground or has it become just a full time residence?
With the newly upgraded camp host site within the park, will the neighborhood camp host be eliminated, or moved to this location? What are the guidelines of the county as far
as occupancy of a camp host space? I know state and federal campgrounds restrict a camp host to occupy a space for a limited amount of time, usually 4 to 6 months, otherwise it
becomes a permanent residence. Are there similar limitations within Riverside County?
If the neighborhood space is to remain an active camp host location, or permanent residence, what can be done about the privacy issue as well as the incessant barking of the occupants 3 dogs?
When outside, the dogs bark at every human or animal that enters their line of vision. This occurs from the street, the trail entrance, as well as from the back side of the space when hikers are heading
down the trail towards the street. Since it doesn’t sound like the motivation for the occupancy of this space was to have eyes on the street, trail or small portion of the picnic area before
the guard shack, can the solid wood fence that was previously removed be reinstalled? The same fence needs to be extended further into the space on the backside to block the dogs’ view of the
hikers coming down the trail. The occupants will put the dogs inside of their trailer sometimes when they are leaving the site. They bark the entire time the hosts are away, and it’s not much quieter
than when they are outside. Can you come up with an alternate solution to this problem?
Has the cost to the county been considered in housing three camp host spaces, two with questionable benefit to the park, throughout the summer? We listened to the air conditioner next door run
all day on Saturday with the outside temperature being about 70 degrees. I imagine the electricity costs of three sites with running air conditioners all summer long could prove to be quite expensive.
Has this been figured into the appropriate budget?
Supervision –
Can you clarify for me who is in charge of supervising the Work Release crews and what does that supervision entail? It appears as though the crews are given instructions and then for the
most part, left alone to do these jobs. This is the case anyway for the jobs being done directly adjacent to our property, which in part is why the foul language and other actions feel so problematic.
I would also appreciate clarification as to whether a background check was performed prior to the neighborhood camphosts arrival. After overhearing a troubling conversation last year I inquired with
you but did not get a response.
Thank you for your consideration and response to these concerns. We would appreciate the opportunity to enjoy the upcoming summer months without having to deal with the challenges we’ve
brought forth to you. We are always open to conversations or brainstorming solutions to these issues. We love the park and spend a great deal of time picking up trash, checking fires, etc. to help
preserve its natural beauty and are happy to continue these efforts in any way that we can. We hope that you view our interest and concern as constructive feedback with the best of intentions.
Stacy Kretsinger
54020 County Park Road
* I apologize for any overlap with John’s response. We seem to have been writing at the same time.
awesomethree2003
May 11, 2022, 11:23:51 AM
Seeing the photos of the meadow damage, you might find it beneficial to contact the Soboba Cultural Center at 951 487 2329. They may be able to provide something toward the necessary restoration, or a possible referral. Chuck Stroud
John Jacobs
May 31, 2022, 12:50:45 PM
Anthony-
Can you please provide a response to the questions (below) that were in follow up to your May 6 email (also below)?
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Miller, Anthony
Jun 25, 2022, 10:08:23 PM
Stacy and neighbors,
John alerted me to several questions I left unanswered; that week a few other emails went out from this group and this response got lost in the shuffle discussing short term rentals, doors being tried, graffiti along the road, etc. I’m happy to take a moment to further explain. I apologize for the delay. Thank you John for bringing to my attention this evening.
Fire Preparedness –
We do advise each guest at arrival of fire restriction. Most declare to us they have propane equipment, we note it and inspect during our patrols in the campground. We hand out the “Please Keep Idyllwild Safe” brochure advising no wood and charcoal fires that was distributed by the Snow Group and Fire Safe Council. It is simple and sweet and lists the Fire Department’s number for ease of reporting issues. When fires are allowed, we issue campfire safety brochures to go over basic campfire safety with guests.
When the guard shack is not manned, we are on patrol and speak with sites about the safety of their equipment, clearances, etc. Any fire pit that isn’t obviously propane fueled, in good working order, with proper shut off is approached and inspected by staff and hosts throughout the campground.
Environmental Impact –
Tree trunks used for delineations and borders show no signs of infestation and appear to be drought/climate related tree mortality or posed a threat to fall from damage.
Camp Hosts –
The upper camp host site across from site 1 was occupied by working camp hosts whos term ended last week. I have two hosts finishing processing imminently to move in to site 36 and Across from site 1. I had hoped to have a host in 36 by Memorial Day, however they did not pass backgrounds so we did not proceed with hiring them.
There are no such restrictions for length of stay; Hosts do declare a term upon hire, some are short term and seasonal, and others are long term with their agreements considered with a performance evaluation annually.
The camp host site up front by the guard shack and residence is not going to be eliminated. A transfer request from the current host is being considered to a different park and I am interviewing prospective replacements to keep those duties assigned.
Electricity cost has been observed to be higher this year but not intrusively. It is factored into our budget and is planned for in current and future fiscal years.
Camp hosts are background checked and I responded back to your 9/30/2021 inquiry on 10/2/2021 after quiet time and fire patrols for some specifics about that troubling conversation. I recall you stating you had not received it the following day, so I forwarded it to you and Brian again the following day, I assumed you had received it. I needed more information than that if you wouldn’t mind sharing that information privately with me?
Supervision –
Every staff (and most volunteers) are assigned job site supervision training annually through the County Sheriffs. I addressed the concerns in the prior email with my team-in particular if we have a worker who is not representing us well they should be sent home and not welcomed back. I hope there has been some improvement in the past month with the workers- the park is much bigger than right adjacent to your house I agree their time is better spent on other duties elsewhere in the park at this time.
I didn’t see any thing else immediately addressed to me I’m happy to further elaborate as time allows.
Thank you,
John Jacobs
Jun 26, 2022, 9:55:59 AM
Anthony-
Large group incident, 6/25/22 Over the weekend of June 24-25, there was a large group of ~100 persons located in campsite 1- this group had a large moving van to transport their gear, multiple generators, a stage with a banner backdrop and amplified sound equipment, and large, wrangler-style propane BBQ.
There are group size limits to the use of each campsites throughout the Park- clearly this group exceeded the Park’s policy, without mentioning the fact that Site 1 is a dedicated handicap site. The Park can create whatever campsite capacity policies that it likes, but the same use policies should still apply, such as fire restrictions and noise impacts.
I was drawn to the Park yesterday due to the noise that was coming from the Park- it was audible all the way up on Pine Crest Ave, and several residents along Riv Co Play Road noted this as well. As I approached the Park, there was a large cloud of smoke drifting directly over the guard shack and up the Riv Co Play Road. This group had a large, propane fueled wrangler-style BBQ that was positioned in close proximity to the tree canopy, with tall flames emanating from it:
This same group had a small stage with amplified music. When I approached the guard shack at ~6:15 pm, you and another Park employee were present, and we discussed this issue, describing the obvious cloud of smoke drifting directly towards the guard shack emanating from this BBQ in close proximity to the tree canopy, and the noise impacts that had occurred with this group on the previous night, and about 15 minutes prior to this discussion. Your response was that you weren’t aware of this fire risk, or the noise impacts. Anthony, this is astounding on both counts given that you were standing in the direct path of that large cloud of smoke with direct visibility to the source, and the noise was audible blocks away.
Later, around 8 pm, the noise was once again audible along Pine Crest, and I personally went to the Park to address it- the guard shack was empty, and there were no Rangers in the Park. I talked with Jack (tenant in the Park’s housing at the front of the Park), and he said he would contact you about this.
The fire risks are a longstanding issue of concern to this area, and should be well understood at this point. The fact that the Park implemented fire restrictions early in the season is very good to see (although it does make one wonder why this hasn’t been done in previous years, as the concern has been expressed for a long time). Even with a good policy like this, it will always come down to supervision and enforcement- and that seemed very questionable last night.
Regarding noise, Riverside County has a very clear Noise Disturbance Ordinance 847 that makes quite clear that: “…Sound emanating from sound amplifying equipment or live music at any other time shall not be audible to the human ear at a distance greater than two hundred (200) feet from the equipment or music.”
The noise that was coming from this group clearly violated this Ordinance, as it was audible along much of Lower Pine Crest (and obviously, along Riv Co Play Rd). Riv Co Parks has the same responsibility to follow Riverside County noise regulations as any of the myriad of live music events that have impacted the quiet of Idyllwild in recent years. And once again…supervision and enforcement are the key issues here.
Meadow Impacts More details about the recent impacts to the meadow (as described in my May 10 email, below) would be appreciated.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
John Jacobs
Jul 13, 2022, 12:16:02 PM
Anthony-
Your comments regarding the June 25 large group noise disturbance and fire incident would be appreciated, as well as the follow-up questions to the impacts on the meadow posed in the May 10 email (below).
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Miller, Anthony
Aug 5, 2022, 10:19:54 PM
Hi John and Neighbors,
John alerted me this afternoon there were concerns left unaddressed from July 13 and earlier and in reviewing my emails I am very sorry I do not see them- please forward any unanswered questions you may have my way and I’m happy to help.
There were questions that were posed to you on June 26 (see below), and when no response was received, I asked again for your comments on July 13 (also below). These queries were sent to the same addresses as always- via the Neighborhood Watch group, and to your anmi…@rivco.org address.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Miller, Anthony
to Brown, Kyla, John Jacobs, pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Whitaker, Dayna, McLain, Dustin
Large Group Incident 6-25-2022
On 6-25-22 I recall speaking with you about the group on site 1; they reserved 9 sites between two names total. Total attendance for the group was approximately 50 persons total. They did set up in site 1 for church services/worship and for meals, which was approved as some of their guests were elderly and had limited mobility. They were permitted to use a small PA for their services and group announcements.
Park Ranger addressed the group Friday evening as the sun went down to turn it down a few notches before quiet hours of 10PM, before which point they turned it off completely in compliance with our enforcement.
Upon hearing your observations about the noise and the BBQ, I investigated after advising you that propane grills are legal, and that the noise was being addressed with the group. You interpreted my response as unawareness but I was initially confused at understanding whether you were concerned about the clearance or the fact they were cooking on propane or the size of the grill. So I asked some questions to clarify and advised we would look into it.
Upon clarification of your report of the grill flaring up I investigated. I found the group was cooking on a legal propane BBQ. The grill flared up from the cooking when the meat was flipped. Despite the clearance away for a typical grill I observed the flare ups from the cooking meat and out of an abundance of caution advised them to move it forward a couple feet.
Saturday evening (6-25) our evening staff went home sick approximately 8PM- and after resolving a medical emergency at Hurkey Creek around 845PM, I headed back up to resume patrols following their departure from the park. I issued a reminder to lower volume to be courteous with sunset and other campers going to bed, and for the activities to cease at 10PM. Around 9:45PM the group dissipated back to their reserved sites.
Staffing/Supervision:
I saw a previous concern/question about the permanent position that has been filled on schedule. I responded to the question that it was approved, but not yet recruiting at the time. County Parks HR was recruiting for multiple positions and can only process so many at a time, so to ensure we had someone working in the park we filled the position with a temporary worker prior to the position being flown. Since then that position has been filled and we now have that permanent Ranger in that position. It sounds like there was concern that the permanent position became temporary but I wanted to clarify that wasn’t the case.
The hold up in processing was Covid as well as County Recruitments do not move forward quickly. In 2019-2020 we hired a permanent employee, however they were laid off at the onset of Covid, and a TAP position was approved in Mar-Apr 2021 to backfill the position with TAP workers until the permanent position was officially approved with the Board.
Camp Hosts: The host who recruited for 36 has begun working and is doing a great job. I have a couple in process recruiting for one of the two remaining host sites (Across from site 1 and the one located adjacent to the County Residence.)
The camp host site across from the Kretsingers is not new, it was repaired infrastructure that was within the scope of our previous budget and planned its repair knowing the additional costs/timeline to get the other host sites online. 64 is next, however it will take some time to procure the electrical upgrades needed to power that site in addition to the others.
Meadow:
I stated in earlier emails explaining the tractor usage this past Winter was to clear snow from the trail/play area to increase parking for overflow conditions from snow play, Easter, etc. Outside of moving snow, there wasn’t a development or project ongoing. I did instruct staff to relocate logs to prevent parking during non-overflow conditions as upon observation we had regulars starting to park further and further and I wanted to limit that traffic.
Projects Re-installing or repairing previous infrastructure that were parts of deferred maintenance in the past and mowing the day use areas to proper standards to my knowledge do not require a CEQA evaluation. If we had these day use areas open without mowing or fire clearances, that would be a concern!
I reviewed some prior maps to try and further explain/answer questions. Below is a map from 2018 Cranston Fire Response and you can see the interpretive trail around the meadow, surrounding day use areas. I’m not seeing the changes the same way you are seeing.
I hope this helps answer some unanswered questions.
FYI – I received this response Anthony – but not the original email. I have checked our spam and IT filters and they are not listed there. Of note, I have had several emails from external gmail accounts blocked by IT in the recent months. This could be the issue and we can check with IT to put the list serve on the “safe list.”
This one came through. I will take some time before next weekend to review and respond. Thanks John!
stacyoates
Aug 17, 2022, 10:12:24 PM
Anthony,
I am unclear as to which camp host site you will be filling next. When you said one of the two remaining sites, across from site 1 and one adjacent to county residence, does that mean next door, with us being the county residents, or on the campground side of Leonard, with him being the county resident? If you have the intention of filling the site next door to us prior to the site inside the campground across from site 1, I would like an explanation as to why. I will again ask the tiresome question that never receives an answer; how is the campground better served with a camp host outside of the campground rather than inside where the activity of campers can be monitored? With the option of a space inside of the campground, I don’t understand why it wouldn’t automatically be filled first. An example of how the camp host is more beneficial inside of the campground where they can monitor activity would be a few weeks ago(July 28th) when we had to call you to come and investigate what looked to be an illegal campers mess of stashed goods, rotten food, fuel and bolt cutters spread around campsite 3 or 4. On our walk the previous evening we noticed their orange bag sticking out from behind a tree. At near dark it was pretty visible. It was late the next afternoon when we walked by again, saw the huge mess of torn apart egg cartons and rotten food. With further investigation we found multiple canisters of fuel for a lantern, bolt cutters, bags, tent, etc. (pictures attached for reference) This mess was very visible from the street and had been there for at least two days, going undetected by the park staff and hosts. You did come right over to clear the space and clean up the mess once we alerted you of it, but in talking about it at the time, I believe the point I was trying to make was missed. Who had been monitoring park activity and how did this go undetected for a minimum of two days? Had there been a camp host stationed at the space across from site 1, inside of the campground, instead of outside of it, this activity would have been immediately detected. I am unaware of Leonard’s job description and duties within the park, but placing camp hosts outside of the park, directly next to the one full time, employed resident of the park seems like a waste of resources. I am also confused as to why the park went the entire summer without a full time camp host yet now that we’re heading into fall and a much slower season the positions are just now being filled. We are very happy to see a camp host at site 36. This is a perfect location for a host. She seems to be gone during the evenings but hopefully is on duty on the weekends, which have remained quite busy throughout the summer.
Obviously our concerns and complaints are of a much more personal nature due to the resurrection of the camp host site directly next to our property. The concerns we present are very unlikely to dissipate due to the huge impact this has had on our quality of life. We are now in a constant state of anxiety, wondering who the next neighbor will be and how disruptive their presence will be. I know our continual frustration about the matter has no bearing on what you and the county decide to do, but if you insist on using this space can you please consider adding back some of the fencing that was taken down prior to its occupancy. We have lost a great deal of privacy with that space being opened up. Can you also consider making this a “no dogs” site? Due to the heavy foot traffic on the trail and street during peak usage times, the openness of the site affords a visual path to a great deal of activity all day long. For dogs that are inclined to barking at the sight of any other living creature, this lends to a non-stop noise disturbance for not just us but this entire part of the neighborhood, as well as any campers and day use patrons in the parking lot and picnic area. I also ask that you do a more extensive background check on any new hosts that occupy the space next to us. I’d like to feel more confident in the character of anyone able to watch my kids, in our own yard, from that space.
On a positive note, I would like to give kudos to the hiring of Paige. We have been very impressed with her work ethic so far. She is conscientious, observant, a hard worker and appears to be focused on taking care of the park while very kindly and efficiently dealing with any issues that do arise. It has been great to see her monitoring activity, keeping things clean and taking care of business. She is a positive addition to the campground.
As always, thank you for taking the time to read our email. If nothing else, I hope it gives you insight as to where we are coming from and how the choices made for the campground can have a direct impact on the neighboring environment.
Thank you,
Stacy Kretsinger
54020 County Park Road
kathystyles01
Aug 18, 2022, 11:05:15 AM
Hi Stacy,
Thanks for keeping up on this. I was wondering if there is anyone at a higher county level that could address this camp host issue. It just seems so ridiculous to have that person camped right next to your house and I found his dogs totally annoying also, as did others on our street. Don’t want to necessarily upset Anthony because he does seem to be rather thoughtful in his responses, but wondering just who makes the decision on where camp hosts should or should not live and why he would be so adamant about using that space? Maybe a letter to Rep Washington? Or do you have any idea who Anthony answers to? I’d be happy to put my 2 cents in to a higher up person. Have already done that with Anthony.
Thanks and take care,
Kathy
Dawn Papaila
Aug 24, 2022, 11:07:16 AM
Hi Stacy and Kathy,
I’d put my two-cents into escalating this to the County Supervisor. Is it still Chuck? I thought we had a new one now that we’ve been redistricted. The Parks are accountable to the County Supervisors. I never found Chuck that helpful but others have had different experiences. I simply do not understand the utility of having a camp host outside of where the campsites are located given that there is already someone living in the Ranger house. My last memory was that this was temporary until the “hookups” inside the campground were repaired.
It is very weird. I can’t imagine that it is attractive to potential hosts either.
Dawn Papaila
kathystyles01
Aug 24, 2022, 11:54:22 AM
Hi Dawn
I did send a message addrresed only to Anthony specifically about the host spot in question (bcc to Stacy). I’ll forward a copy to you. Have not received a reply from Anthony yet. If I do not, will confirm our district level rep and send one to that person.
Thanks
Kathy
John Jacobs
Aug 26, 2022, 2:21:42 PM
Replying here to provide Anthony opportunity for response.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549
John stopped by and advised again there were replies and I am not getting the emails. We are still looking into the IT department and seeing what the issue might be why I am not receiving replies to these emails. I’ve asked John to forward over the emails/concerns and I will be happy to reply back to this chain.
Today I attended the Riverside County Planning Commission meeting regarding public commentary on Ordinance 927.1 intended to regulate Short Term Rental activity throughout the unincorporated areas of Riverside County. Here are a few impressions I gained from the meeting.
The meeting started at 9 am, and as I learned from one of the administrators, a typical meeting will have perhaps 10-12 persons making comments. This meeting had over 50- a testament to the significance of the issue- many were physically present at the meeting, but the great majority appeared remotely via Zoom or voice call. In the meeting room, there were several familiar faces from the Idyllwild area, though there was a fair balance between those speaking regarding Idyllwild-Pine Cove, and other unincorporated areas- the Temecula wine country contingent was quite strong. I attended the meeting until about noon- most of the persons present spoke before that time, and those who attended remotely spoke in the afternoon- so I don’t have an impression of the Idyllwild representation was in the afternoon.
The general tone of this meeting was far more rational than the Town Hall meeting that occurred regarding this issue last fall- individuals were allotted 2 minutes each (though it was possible to cede one’s time to another person, if they were physically present). Apparently, over 2300 pages of comments were received regarding this issue, and the overwhelming majority were from the Idyllwild-Pine Cove area.
I made my own comments known, and came to learn just how short 2 minutes really is on such a complex issue!
Ordinance 927.1 is not finalized at this point in time, though it seems a fait accompli- following this meeting, the Planning Commission will review the comments and may make revisions before submitting it to the Supervisors for final approval. This ordinance has undergone several revisions- here are some of the more contested elements, and where they currently stand:
*Signage specifying a home as a Short Term Rental will be required, however it sounds unlikely that the phone number of the owner will be posted on this sign (numerous persons object to this for security reasons related to building and their own personal security.
*Noise monitors (inside and outside the building) will be required to monitor excessive noise.
*A property with an ‘Accessory Dwelling Unit’ (ADU) may only use the primary residence as the STR- the ADU is not eligible (though the property owner could live in the ADU, and rent the primary residence).
*A minimum 2 night stay will be required. This is contentious on both sides of the issue- it is intended to reduce the tendency to rent for a short term party, however some STR owners point out that many quiet, legitimate renters can only feasibly rent for one night (PCT hikers in Idyllwild are a primary example).
*Occupancy maximums will be based on the number of official bedrooms in a home (according to California Building Code)- 2 persons per bedroom, plus one additional person. Thus, a 3 bedroom home can have a maximum of 7 persons. All parking must be onsite, and not on the street or anywhere offsite. Use above this will require official exemptions from the County.
There are many more facets to this issue than these select few- for brevity, these are the issues that have gained most attention. If anyone else in our Neighborhood Watch Program attended this meeting in any capacity, it would be interesting to hear other perspectives on their impressions.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Dan Papaila
Thanks for the update John.
Dan & Dawn Papaila
John Jacobs
Apr 26, 2022, 11:28:27 AM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Ordinance 927.1 is in the final stages of development before it is submitted to the Board of Supervisors for final approval, however comments are still being accepted for possible modifications. You can find the latest version of this ordinance here: https://planning.rctlma.org/Advance-Planning/348UPD
If you have thoughts or comments on this important issue related to the quality of life in our neighborhood and the Idyllwild area as a whole, they can be submitted here:
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Dan Papaila wrote on 4/21/22 7:06 AM:
John Jacobs
May 19, 2022, 10:49:48 AM
to Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
Yesterday, I attended the second Riverside County Planning Commission meeting regarding Ordinance 927- since the last meeting on April 20, the Commission considered the wide range of comments that were made at that meeting, and via various correspondence that has been received, and made several adjustments to the Ordinance. This meeting was intended as a means to provide another opportunity to provide commentary on these new adjustments. The meeting had a similar level of attendance as the last one, with a very strong presence of those from the Temecula wine country area, and comments were made by some in attendance, and (many) others via Zoom.
Among the adjustments: the minimum stay in a registered Short Term Rental was reduced to one night. There are varying views of the impacts of this- many from areas like the wine country feel a minimum two night stay will encourage people to visit the area to drink wine then drive home because they don’t want to stay two nights. Others feel that a one night stay encourages ‘Party Houses’.
Noise monitors will be required both on the interior and exterior of the buildings. These devices only monitor noise levels, and not conversation. Exceeding noise levels will be part of the criteria for fines towards the property owner.
Occupancy levels will remain the same- 2 persons per bedroom, plus one extra person, up to a maximum of 10 persons. Large properties (minimum of 5 acres) can have up to 16, but require approval.
All parking must be onsite, and not on street or offsite. This parking capacity requirement is part of the criteria for being registered.
There is consideration for a cap on the total number of STR’s, but the County is grappling with how to set these criteria. My sense is that the Commission is open to the idea, but the devil is in the details about how to do it. There is an intent to get this Ordinance in effect soon, and then revisit the concept of a cap in a ‘Phase 2’.
Once the Commission has completed its work on the Ordinance, it goes to the County Supervisors for approval, and will be implemented.
My personal view of this process has been that the Commission is genuine in seeing that STR’s are a problem that need clear management, and that they are doing due diligence to find a management solution. It is also an incredibly difficult issue to create a management ordinance around, with many facets (and impassioned people!) that are in direct conflict with each other. The resulting ordinance is not going to make anyone 100% happy, and there will still be lots of frustrated people, for very differing reasons. I have come away from this experience more empathetic for those who are trying to work through it, those who have differing conditions from my own (and therefore views of the ordinance), and a clear reinforcement of my longstanding intent to *never* become involved in politics like this!
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Hi Neighbors,
I just booted two suspicious persons from Dawn and Dan’s property here on Riverside County Playground Road. They suspiciously approached the house, scoped out the yard then started testing doors. I approached and asked whether they were there by permission of the owners. They of course said yes. I then asked them who the owners were. They deflected my question, simply saying they were looking for their “rental.” They claimed the rental had high ceilings so they thought Dawn and Dan’s place was it. That was clearly a bad, off-the-cuff lie. I told them the house wasn’t their rental and that their rental, if there was in fact a high-ceilinged rental they were looking for, was not on this street. I escorted them off Dan and Dawn’s property and they each left in seperate directions.
Suspicious person 1: white woman with platinum long blonde hair appearing to be in her late 50s wearing jean shorts or skirt and a long-sleeve black print shirt.
Suspicious person 2: white man with brown hair and a bear in late 20s or early 30s wearing pants and a plaid hooded jacket carrying a skateboard.
Keep an eye out for them. They might be scoping out other properties in the area.
Sincerely,
Jacob
Dan Papaila
May 12, 2022, 3:28:06 PM
Thanks Jacob!
Dan & Dawn Papaila
Byron Grams
May 12, 2022, 3:58:30 PM
Nice job
Thanks for keep an eye out.
Odd that they left in different directions.
B
jasrhume
unread,
May 12, 2022, 6:16:09 PM
thanks Jacob,
well done.
We are usually at home and have a better view of yours and the Byron/Paula and Brian/Stacy properties. We’ll keep looking, too.
be well,
Charlotte and Jameson
kathystyles01
May 12, 2022, 6:47:50 PM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Kudos Jacob. My vacation rental, last house on the left just before park entrance, is currently occupied for a few days and we maintain security cameras at 2 entrances, but much appreciate the extra eyes on the place. This kind of creepy stuff seems to be on the rise. Thanks for your vigilance.
Regards,
Kathy
Dawn Papaila
May 15, 2022, 9:25:16 PM
Dear Neighbors,
I posted the descriptions of the two people who Jacob escorted off our property on the Idyllwild Crime Watch group. The woman identified herself. See images of her posts below.
I’m not going to reply to her and may remove my post from that group. I’m going to sleep on this decision.
I absolutely puzzled by her reply. First that she identified herself. Secondly that she thinks I owe her an apology. Very strange.
Dan did have our front steps blocked with saw horses since he had stained the steps. We did hear that they were seen on Lower Pinecrest. Perhaps they found the house that needed painting and got the gig. But still something very creepy about this.
kathystyles01
May 16, 2022, 7:05:25 AM
That’s a tough one, Dawn. I think I’d just “not engage” too, as she seems to be overly defensive of behavior that really anyone would find suspicious. Seriously–no name, no phone number, wrong address, and a skate board instead of painting tools? They deserved to be questioned and asked to leave and should be offering apologies themselves. As you said–pretty weird.
Thanks,
Kathy
Jacob Booher
May 16, 2022, 8:31:11 AM
I don’t buy it.Their current story doesn’t comport with the story they told me that day. Nor does it explain their behavior.
I wouldn’t engage though. There’s not much to gain from it. There’s no crime to prove or damages to be rectified. We stopped potential trouble before it materialized into something real and put the potential trouble-doers on notice that we as a group of neighbors are looking out for each other. Acute and systemic deterrence accomplished.
Dawn Papaila
May 16, 2022, 9:16:21 AM
Adding my post here to make this record complete.
Dear Neighbors,
I posted the descriptions of the two people who Jacob escorted off our property on the Idyllwild Crime Watch group. The woman identified herself. See images of her posts below.
I’m not going to reply to her and may remove my post from that group. I’m going to sleep on this decision.
I absolutely puzzled by her reply. First that she identified herself. Secondly that she thinks I owe her an apology. Very strange.
Dan did have our front steps blocked with saw horses since he had stained the steps. We did hear that they were seen on Lower Pinecrest. Perhaps they found the house that needed painting and got the gig. But still something very creepy about this.
Dawn Papaila
Dawn Papaila
May 16, 2022, 9:25:53 AM
Hi Neighbors,
I want to thank Jacob again. He did the right thing and exactly what we would do if the situation were reversed. And we don’t buy her story either.
This person is obviously troubled and it is odd that she identified herself. She’s now using FB Messenger to reach me (I don’t use Messenger and wish to heck I could totally turn it off with a message that tells people that I don’t use it). She also has cruised my FB “wall.” Most posts are private and I just flipped the few that were public to private.
I may remove the Crime Watch post since it has been seen by many already. I’m not going to engage even though I want to tell her that I’m not anti-skateboard and that I have nothing to apologize for and that if she has lived here 20 years (and I’ve been told that she has and perhaps recently has been living in the park), then she knows the difference between Lower Pine Crest and County Park Rd. But I have had a lot of experience with people who are “a bubble off plumb” and know that there is no point in trying to reason with them when their victim mentality is in control.
We should probably consider a camera system on this property. That’s a discussion that I’ll have to have with Dan. 🙂
So thankful for our Neighborhood Watch Group!
Dawn
Genevieve Alvarado
May 16, 2022, 9:36:38 AM
Whao this developed 😂
Ezekiel n I also very skeptical of a few red flags:
1. ‘Renting’ an Airbnb in your own community with a young buck
2. Changing that story into a painting gig
3. Statements from only half of the offending party
4. disappearances / wellness checks for her on social media (benders)
5. Thinking ignorance makes trespassing okay
6. Splitting up when confronted
May be worth finding this ‘painting’ gig.. If it didn’t exist on lower pinecrest then chances are their actions were indeed unsavory / worth an official report
John Jacobs
May 16, 2022, 10:05:17 AM
to Pine Crest Neighborhood Watch
So much sketchiness in all of this, it’s hard to list it all. A look at this woman’s Facebook profile is worthwhile- her photo is there, which would be worth making a mental note of for all in the neighborhood. Anyone who thinks that it’s acceptable to walk around a home and try the doors while doing so with a guy who skateboards around Idyllwild definitely has the kind of judgement that would mean trouble.
Dawn & Jacob, this is definitely worth reporting to the Sheriff- they really do want to know about incidents like this. Though nothing came from it, they do want to have a heads up about the people in town that are involved in this kind of stuff- it helps them in the long run in watching for the bad guys around Idyllwild. Call the Sheriff’s non-emergency line at: 909.776.1099, then press 5 to get to the dispatcher. Tell them you have a report you’d like to make regarding a recent attempted break-in. It may take some time for them to arrive (there’s soooo much for them to do in this area these days), and it might take a second call to get them there, but they will likely eventually show up and take a report.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Dawn Papaila
May 16, 2022, 11:16:18 AM
Hi Jacob,
I’ll call the sheriff. And I agree with everyone’s sentiments and really appreciate Genevieve’s list of red flags. 🙂
Dawn
jasrhume
May 16, 2022, 12:13:00 PM
Hi Dawn and Jacob,
I took a look on Facebook to find a Marcia Pennington who lives in Idyllwild.
The attached picture showed up.
As you know, Charlotte and I regularly get some exercise doing circuits around the park.
We believe this is a photo of a lady we have seen more than once walking through the park.
The last time we saw her she was looking in the trash cans. That was about 2 weeks ago.
Jacob,
Is this the woman you escorted off Dawn and Dan’s property?
I know you are currently fielding several important issues with residents adjacent to the park, all of which I support; I don’t like to pile on, but have been wanting to bring this up for some time: We live right next to the park entrance, and have been especially unhappy with the camp host being situated outside the campground, mostly because of that particular individual’s dogs (apparently there are 3) being caged outside and barking every time someone or something comes down the road or the trail–other animals, people, car noise, you name it. This is a very frequent occurrence, not just occasional. It really makes no sense to have a camp host outside the camp, where they are impacting the neighborhood more than the actual camp. Hope you will entertain the thought of moving this camp host into the park and asking them to find a way to deal with their dogs’ barking issues.
Thanks for your consideration,
Kathy & Robert Styles
Miller, Anthony
Sep 13, 2022, 12:17:21 PM
Good afternoon,
Apologies for the delay, between the holiday weekend and hazardous weather impacts on the mountain and the parks my attention has been elsewhere this past week. Fortunately things are settling down on all fronts.
The short answer to “why” to your question is infrastructure. We made a decision to eliminate one of the two host sites up front (across from site #1) to be able to supply sufficient power downstream to site #36 with that site online. We still needed some upgrades to make site 36 viable on the same circuit as the #1 host site and that took some time to complete via contractors and County Maintenance Supervisors to do so since its larger in scope than what we normally do in house.
While that was in progress, it was a quick sewer repair to get the neighboring camp host site online. The priority assigned to that site was purely based on the internal infrastructure issues we have. In prior emails perhaps I have misunderstood the concerns and explained the benefits of having the host site online in general terms when in reality you seem more concerned with prioritizing the site over other sites. Apologies if that is the case.
We have future plans to get site 64 online as well, but there are significant upgrades/replacements that are years away from getting that site online.
As we continue recruiting, If I have two candidates for the same spot and one has dogs, the other does not-I will take the sites’ location into consideration I would prioritize the one without the dog. That said, I do not have a policy denying candidates the opportunity to volunteer if they have a dog. However, the host is responsible for the behavior of the animal and may be asked to leave if they become a nuisance and are not able to remedy the issues.
You mention increasing the fence line for additional privacy; I would be more than happy to meet and discuss the fence line whether extension would be to a mutual benefit to the public and for your privacy.
It takes time to recruit for these positions and even more time to find the right people. Regardless of the season if we have open sites we are recruiting for the position. I am still recruiting for the referenced campsite. Last month we filled site 36 and I have candidates cleared to move in to the site across from site 1 Sunday 9/18. I am pleased you have had positive interactions with Paige, and I hope you have additional positive interactions with our new hosts, Ranger Martinez and Ranger Aguilera, and existing staff.
Don’t hesitate to reach out, Thank you for your feedback it does help us understand how things are seen outside park boundaries.
Thank you for responding to my recent email. You have previously answered the question as to why the host site next to us was originally used last fall. I understand the reasoning. I am happy to hear that the host site across from site #1 will be filled this weekend. I guess at this point what I’m really wanting to understand is why the host site next to us will continue to be filled with the addition of two host sites within the park occupied. We went the entire summer with very limited staff as well as one camp host who, thankfully, was present very intermittently. With two separate host sites within the park filled and three rangers now on duty, why is the site next to us remaining active? I have inquired as to this site’s relevance and benefit to the park repeatedly but have yet to get an answer. How is a host site outside of the campground, essentially within the neighborhood instead of park, next door to the full time resident employee, relevant or beneficial? It feels more negatively impactful towards the neighborhood than beneficial to the park. I realize this was set up as a host site decades ago, but when was it actually used as such? We’ve been here for 17 years and have seen it used once for only a couple of months.
I do appreciate your consideration on the issue of dogs at the host site. Other than the complete loss of privacy, the dogs made the largest impact on the quality of our day to day life. I also appreciate your willingness to discuss fencing in regards to the privacy issue. Though that won’t help with the noise factor, replacing fencing would visually provide us with more privacy. We are happy to discuss any of these issues more in depth at any time.
Though we haven’t met all of the new staff, we have had very positive interactions with both Paige and Richie. Their presence is much appreciated.
