More tagging has appeared in the neighborhood recently- these were spotted in the last month or so, at the intersection of Pine Crest & Maranatha/Hwy 243:
This was easily cleaned up with Goof-Off.
Very recently, this tagging/graffiti appeared on structures in Idyllwild Pines Camp:
Please post up here with any kind of tagging or graffiti that is noticed in our neighborhood. When it remains in place, it encourages more such tagging & graffiti.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
John Jacobs
Dec 10, 2023, 7:50:35 PM
‘Bonzo’ is back…
These ‘tags’ popped up in the same locations as those found in June ‘22. Same ink pens used- easily removed with Goof-Off. This pattern seems to suggest a local person- likely some kid who is trying to be all gangsta here in Idy. If anyone sees more of this around the neighborhood, post up here…the sooner it gets removed, the better.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549
You may have noticed that there is a major event (wedding) set up in the yard of the STR on the corner of Pinecrest and County Park Road. The owners told me that it is a family event and that “they have a permit from the Fire Department.” There are two things that really bother me about this situation:
1. The dishonesty of the owners stating that they live in that house when we all know it is rented as an STR almost weekly. The owners live in Idyllwild in another house. I’m told that they own several STRs.
2. The porta potties. So they have bathrooms but apparently not enough for the size of the party they’re going to have this afternoon.
So, they may indeed be in compliance with County rules. I will do the research to determine if they’re registered as an STR and let you know. If they are in compliance, then there’s not a darned thing that we can do to prevent this property from being used for large events. If they are out of compliance, I’ll do my best to share what recourse we have.
In the meantime, I’ve blocked the front of my house from parking. You may want to do the same.
We have a well-managed STR on County Park Road and that’s perfectly fine. I’m not anti-STR. My issue is with a poorly managed STR and dishonest owners.
There – I got that off my chest. If the owners are part of the neighborhood watch than they are hearing this for a second time. I already expressed my concerns with them face-to-face this morning.
Dawn
John Jacobs
Oct 14, 2023, 2:29:40 PM
The address of this house is 54050 Pine Crest.
According to this listing of permitted STR’s, this house is currently permitted to operate as an STR. This house has had strong use as an STR for numerous years- there have been regular, though occasional, instances of problems related to numbers of visitors, parking, and noise- as a result, the owners have not developed particularly good relations with the surrounding neighbors.
It does appear that it is the owners that are conducting this event, so the regulations that would normally apply to STR use probably don’t apply. However, the normal regulations related to noise and parking are still quite relevant. Here is a link to the Riverside County Noise Ordinance 847– here is a pertinent excerpt (Section 6 c & d):
c. Audio Equipment. No person shall operate any audio equipment, whether portable or not, between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 8:00 a.m. such that the equipment is audible to the human ear inside an inhabited dwelling other than a dwelling in which the equipment may be located. No person shall operate any audio equipment, whether portable or not, at any other time such that the equipment is audible to the human ear at a distance greater than one hundred (100) feet from the equipment. d. Sound Amplifying Equipment and Live Music. No person shall install, use or operate sound amplifying equipment, or perform, or allow to be performed, live music unless such activities comply with the following requirements. To the extent that these requirements conflict with any conditions of approval attached to an underlying land use permit, these requirements shall control. 1. Sound amplifying equipment or live music is prohibited between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 8:00 a.m. 2. Sound emanating from sound amplifying equipment or live music at any other time shall not be audible to the human ear at a distance greater than two hundred (200) feet from the equipment or music.
Any kind of problems related to this event (or any other similar issue) can be reported to the Riverside County Sheriff’s non-emergency phone: 951.776.1099 Select Option 5 to go directly to a dispatcher
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
kathystyles01
Oct 14, 2023, 2:32:04 PM
HI Dawn,
Call Code Enforcement (800-228-5150) to confirm they are legit (that’s the # that’s required to be posted on any STR). I’m thinking with all the new restrictions in place for STRs, this type of “eventing” is not allowed.
Thanks,
Kathy
dawn.p…@
Oct 14, 2023, 2:47:19 PM
Hi again,
So I did some research and this house at 54050 Pinecrest is listed on VRBO and is registered with County as a short term rental (STR) – Riverside County TOT #71-226. If you select the link above, you’ll note that events and parties are strictly prohibited. I believe that’s a requirement of the County’s STR ordinance. Interestingly, there are permits issued by the Fire department for small and for large events although I see no definition nor explanation about why the permit is required and what the Fire department assesses before issuing such a permit. I will say that I’ve been told that this property has been abated for the first time in a years so perhaps that was a requirement. And that’a plus! Also, there’s a fee so it is a revenue generator for the Fire Department. Here’s a link to the Fire Department’s permit page.
The Riverside County Short Term Rental Hotline is (951) 955-2004. I called but there is only an answering service on weekends and my intention is NOT to shut this party down but to prevent the property from being used for large events in the future.
Some of you know that there have been issues with this STR over the years including open fires on the deck and the chimney catching on fire. There have been excessive numbers of cars and excessively loud renters. So this is not the first time that the owners have been told of our concerns. I just don’t get the impression that they care about our neighborhood.
So, again, I want to restate that I’m not anti-STR. I’m anti huge party in an an STR that requires porta parties! I’m also insulted by the pure dishonesty of the owners – so disrespectful. Although to be completely honest, I have learned that they notified the immediate neighbors about 6 months ago. I won’t speak for the neighbors but I don’t think that this was a discussion. I think it was simply to warn them about the party.
So, I’ll follow up. I just don’t know how an STR that can’t have parties and large events can do so just because the owners are using the property. This seems like a loophole that could lead to issues in the future.
I’ll let you know if I’m able to make any progress. But it appears that there’s very little enforcement of the STR ordinances. We are subject the professionalism and courtesy of the respective owners.
Dawn
kathystyles01
Oct 14, 2023, 3:40:44 PM
Thanks for the additional info. Leave a message complaint if possible on that line (I’d do it myself if I were in town and experiencing this 1st hand). The regs have stipulation that legitimate complaints will result in a fine, and I believe 3 complaints in a 12-month period will result in a permit being revoked. I’ve short-term rented my place for years and this kind of issue with a host really p#*$&$-es me off!
Thanks for your efforts,
Kathy
John Jacobs
Oct 14, 2023, 4:19:21 PM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Again: While this house is a registered STR, this event is being hosted by the owners- it is a wedding &/or reception for a family member of the property owners, who are present themselves. Therefore, the new Riverside County STR ordinance 927 (and its related regulations) are very unlikely to be applicable. Registering any kind of complaint for those reasons is probably pointless.
However, normal noise and parking regulations do have applicability. If noise levels violate Riverside County Ordinance 847, then contact the Sheriff’s non-emergency line at:
951.776.1099 Select Option 5 to go directly to a dispatcher
This excerpt is especially relevant:
6 d. Sound Amplifying Equipment and Live Music. No person shall install, use or operate sound amplifying equipment, or perform, or allow to be performed, live music unless such activities comply with the following requirements. To the extent that these requirements conflict with any conditions of approval attached to an underlying land use permit, these requirements shall control.
1. Sound amplifying equipment or live music is prohibited between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 8:00 a.m. 2. Sound emanating from sound amplifying equipment or live music at any other time shall not be audible to the human ear at a distance greater than two hundred (200) feet from the equipment or music.
There are currently many cars parked down along Riverside County Playground Road, and down on (lower) Lower Pine Crest. Guests are apparently parking somewhere on Pine Crest up towards Forest Lumber. If you object to this, you will likely need to ask these people to move their vehicles. (I’m uncertain if there is a ordinance that restricts parking, although if the car is actually blocking traffic, it would likely be in violation of some regulation, I’m sure.)
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
John Jacobs
Oct 15, 2023, 11:06:50 AM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
As a resident within 200′ of this home and the event, this is my perspective on last night’s wedding at 54050 Pine Crest.
There were quite a few cars along Riv Co Play Rd, and down on (lower) Lower Pine Crest. However, in the immediate vicinity of the homes in my area, there really weren’t any at all. There was some music that was audible around 5-7 pm, but it was really quite low, and not noticeable in my house. My other nearby neighbors stated the same thing- that parking and noise really wasn’t an issue. There were about 75 persons present- overall, it was a pretty low-impact event.
The wedding/reception was for the daughter of the owners of this property. Any kind of STR regulations that are currently in place did not apply. It is still not clear what the ‘permit’ was for- it’s possible it was related to the commercial BBQ service that was providing food. The owners had a few positive dialogues with next door residents afterward (including bringing flowers to one of the neighbors).
While it was a relatively low-impact event, it is understandable that residents in the vicinity would be concerned about what appeared to be taking place there yesterday morning/afternoon- this house has been an STR for several years now, and while most of the guests have been relatively low profile, there has definitely been a regular, occasional pattern of problem guests. Incidents have included loud partying on the deck, music, parking, open fires, intrusion into neighboring properties, and other such issues. Since residents in the area only know this house as an STR, it’s not surprising to interpret what was going on there was (yet another) STR abuse. Relationship building and communication on the part of STR owners can go a long way towards mitigating the frictions that develop related to STR’s.
Though it was not applicable to this event, the status of Riverside County Ordinance 927.2: The Ordinance has gone through many revisions over the last year, and most recently, the Planning Commission approved the current version, and passed it to the Supervisors. They are currently considering it, and are scheduled to meet on November 7- this may result in finalizing it, revising it, or sending it back for more work. Because it is still in flux, many of the details of the regulation aren’t clear. Once it is effectively finalized, resources related to STR’s will be posted on the PineCrestWatch website.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
divineintegrationqhht
Oct 15, 2023, 12:36:33 PM
I walked by this event after dark, and it seemed very respectful, and it’s sweet to see a family wedding in the neighborhood.
dawn.p…@
Oct 15, 2023, 1:05:15 PM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Appreciate all the input and I agree that it wasn’t loud. Also, it is possible our neighborhood is zoned for events. I’ll find out more and report back.
I’m my mind, this is a slippery slope. The owner can host large events as long as they’re not renting it as an overnight STR stay? But if it is rented as an STR, the rules for limited capacity and no parties applies? (Probably)
I sense that this could lead to renting homes for events. It’s really not about this one particular property. It’s the “loophole” that seems odd to me.
And, if the owner had been honest about their supposed residency at this location and had communicated in advance beyond their immediate next door neighbors, it would have mitigated my reaction to the porta potties and I wouldn’t have been such a party pooper.
I will follow up after I talk with the County and determine the zoning, etc.
There are other details here that could be relevant to potential future events in this area.
This home (and others along this section of Pine Crest) are zoned as R3. This zoning is primarily residential, with potential for (very) limited non-residential use. This document contains specifics:
‘Renting a home for an event’ would be very difficult to do, if the event was a single event, and such a commercial effort would be subject to zoning limitations. That would be a lot of trouble to go to for such an event- it doesn’t seem likely, and has never been an issue (to my knowledge) in this neighborhood.
Renting an STR will have very strict limitations on the size of the group that uses the home- Ordinance 927.2 is quite clear about this.
Agreed- better communication with the broader neighborhood would have been helpful. Unfortunately, the owners have not participated in our neighborhood watch program.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549
First, thank you John for all your research. I called Riverside County Short Term Rental Hotline at (951) 955-2004. They said that a permit would be required but they also understood my concern and are going to have someone from their team call me back. My intention is to just get clarity on this in advance of the upcoming hearing. I see this as a “slippery slope” in terms of using an STR (and we all know this is a full time STR) for owner-orchestrated events that exceed the rules required for the STR. I’m pretty sure that there’s nothing that will result of this effort. They’re probably within their rights. But I’m convinced that someone wouldn’t create a service similar to VRBO or AB&B that allows owners to rent their homes to host parties. I’m just trying to nip that in the bud. I’m already being bullied on FB both publicly and privately. And that just motivates me to stay in the fight. 😎
Dawn Papaila
dawn.p…@
Oct 17, 2023, 11:52:30 AM
Ugh…typos…I’m NOT convinced that someone who is needing income wouldn’t try to create this type of “party at my house” service.
kellyvisel
Oct 17, 2023, 12:14:51 PM
Hi Dawn,
I’ve mostly just sat back on this and listened, because raising concerns is fine. However, as John made clear, these were owners using their own property respectfully and with little impact to the direct neighbors.
Additionally, you closed comments on your Facebook posts. So how is anyone “bullying” you? You created posts meant to incite heated commentary, calling people out pretty much by name, and then turned off the community’s ability to respond. Essentially, you started a fight and then refused to stay for it.
Now you’re inventing a problem where there is none. Of all the problems we face in our neighborhood, the occasional owner using their own property shouldn’t be this big of a deal.
You should look up “slippery slope,” which is considered an argument fallacy. It’s a style of argument that shows you don’t have enough evidence to prove something negative is headed our way.
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize.
dawn.p…@
Oct 17, 2023, 12:19:58 PM
Wow. You’re really angry. Let me address your points in-line below.
On Oct 17, 2023, at 12:14 PM, Kelly Visel wrote:
Hi Dawn,
I’ve mostly just sat back on this and listened, because raising concerns is fine. However, as John made clear, these were owners using their own property respectfully and with little impact to the direct neighbors.
I did nothing to shut down the event. I called today to inquire about the rules for how a full-time STR is used.
Additionally, you closed comments on your Facebook posts. So how is anyone “bullying” you? You created posts meant to incite heated commentary, calling people out pretty much by name, and then turned off the community’s ability to respond. Essentially, you started a fight and then refused to stay for it.
I closed down comments on the second post 24 hours later because of the backlash. I’m getting private messages. I didn’t call anyone out by name. I didn’t include the address. I didn’t show a photo of the house. I don’t know what you’re referencing.
Now you’re inventing a problem where there is none. Of all the problems we face in our neighborhood, the occasional owner using their own property shouldn’t be this big of a deal.
I’ve tried to be clear that my concern is if STRs (in general) can be used for parties that are so large that they require Porta potties. I said that the owners were likely in compliance.
You should look up “slippery slope,” which is considered an argument fallacy. It’s a style of argument that shows you don’t have enough evidence to prove something negative is headed our way.
You’re right. I don’t have enough evidence. I’ve fully admitted that there wasn’t any issues and that they’re probably in compliance.
kellyvisel
Oct 17, 2023, 12:42:47 PM
I’m not angry, I’m just clear and to the point. Which is this, you started a fight and don’t like the response. There isn’t an STR issue, which John told you two days ago. Call whoever you want, I don’t care, but I’m not going to pretend like what you did was cool.
There have been two recent instances of rattlesnakes found in the yards of residents in our neighborhood- one on Lower Pine Crest, and one on Riv Co Play Road (last weekend). One of the relocation providers in the area says that he has removed nearly 300 this year from the areas of Idyllwild, Pine Cove and Garner Valley.
In light of the fact this is an ongoing issue at certain times of the year, I thought I’d share some basic information about their biology, how to deal with them when they are encountered, and first response medical care. What I have to share comes from 30+ years of teaching a specialized form of emergency medicine oriented to environments where medical care is delayed, some amateur herpetological knowledge I’ve gathered over time, and many, many years of encountering them in the backcountry, as well as in and around Idyllwild.
Biology Rattlesnakes are Crotalids, a subfamily of Viperadae (vipers)- they are ectothermic (cold-blooded) reptiles, so they don’t have the ability generate their own heat, and manage their core temperature by changing their location over the course of the day. In the mornings, they will often seek sunny locations to warm themselves, then as the day gets hotter, will seek shadier locations- then come back out in the evening hours as the day cools. During very hot days, they can be active during nights, sometimes seeking warm rock, ground or asphalt.
The Viperadae family (‘pit vipers’) includes all species of rattlesnakes, cottonmouths, and copperheads. Only rattlesnakes are found in the wild in this area of the country- there are numerous species, but the most common in the San Jacinto mountains is the Southern Pacific, with the Speckled rattlesnake occasionally found as well. All pit vipers share common physical characteristics of a triangular shaped head, vertical pupils (yes, if you are close enough to see this, you are likely too close), and the heat sensing organ (‘pit’) just below their eyes/nose- this is a very sensitive organ that allows them to sense prey and the environment around them. They have very poor eyesight, effectively cannot hear at all, and sense the environment around them via this heat-sensing pit, ground vibrations and a sensitive olfactory function in their tongue (which is why they flip it out regularly). Rattlesnakes in particular have a ‘rattle’ that is formed by modified skin cells as the snake ages and sheds their skin, which can occur several times per year (so the number of buttons does not equate to years of life).
Pit vipers have retractable fangs (the only type of snake that does) that flip forward when they bite their prey, and inject the venom into the tissue of the prey. This venom has two general components to it- a neurotoxin, which immobilizes the prey; and a ’tissue toxin’ (hemotoxin), which breaks down the tissue to make digestion easier. (It’s worth noting that this venom is intended for small prey, which is why it is uncommon to be lethal to otherwise healthy adult humans, and the greater concern comes for children or small animals- dogs in particular.) Different species have varying concentrations of the two types of toxins, but all pit vipers have both in their venom. Contrary to common belief, there is very little science that demonstrates that snakes will vary the injection of venom according to whether they ‘believe’ it to be prey or something else- ‘dry bites’ do occur at times (bites with minimal/no envenomation), but the mechanics of the circumstances of how the bite occurred probably plays a strong role (thickness of clothing worn, bite location on the body, how long the snake was able to ‘latch’, etc.). There is no difference in the toxicity of venom in juvenile vs. adult snakes.
Avoidance Keeping in mind some their basic biology can be helpful in avoidance. During the spring/summer/early fall, keep an eye out for them anytime on a trails in the local area, and especially at the key times of mornings and late afternoons. They are absolutely not interested in seeking out humans- they will avoid us at all possible opportunity! Most bites occur because they are startled, or cornered with no escape route. (Statistically, there are about the same number of bites that occur to the foot/lower leg as there are to the dominant hand & forearm due to people trying to handle the snake- this is documented fact, made more striking that the vast majority of those hand/forearm bites are on males, with alcohol involved…) If you encounter one on a trail somewhere, just walk around it and leave it alone- they won’t chase you. If you are a regular hiker or lived in these mountains for any period of time, you have undoubtedly walked by many of them, without knowing it- they will simply lie still, and let you pass on by. Basically: when you are in terrain where snakes may be present, keep an eye on where you step, and where you reach.
Thicker, durable clothing can reduce the likelihood or severity of envenomation (see this research paper from Loma Linda University), at the very least, long pants made of thicker denim. Those that tromp around in areas with high snake populations (biologists, foresters, hunters) often wear kevlar-constructed chaps or gaiters, available from many retailers. While this specialized clothing is probably excessive for around the home, simply wearing long, thicker pants is helpful when working or hiking in brushy areas where they may be present.
Because our homes lie in the midst of, or immediately adjacent to wild areas, they will sometimes wind up in residential yards. Keeping a property clear of excessive brush, wood piles, etc. reduces habitat and the likelihood of encountering them. Should you encounter one on your property, it’s generally best to not attempt to handle or move it unless you have good skill and experience. Killing is a common tactic, but also takes some skill- bites have occurred when this isn’t done carefully, and there is still the dead snake that has to be dealt with, which can be dangerous even after they are dead. (While I’m generally not a fan of killing them, there may be some locations where this is the best strategy, such as when they are found in the midst of a large camp where lots of people or kids congregate.) Relocation is also an option, but should be done by someone who is familiar with ideal relocation sites, and to improve the likelihood the snake will survive in the new site. (This is generally my preferred strategy.) There are several sources here in Idyllwild that will capture and relocate rattlesnakes:
These folks have a longtime history in Idyllwild, and are quite skilled at humane capture and proper relocation.
First Response medical care The bottom line is that someone who is bitten and envenomated will require antivenin- more on this in a moment- but there are several things that can be done that are useful as supportive care. For starters, secure the safety of the scene, and obviously make sure the snake is no longer a threat to anyone. Envenomations will result in very dramatic discoloration and swelling- if the person has any kind of restricting articles on the limb that is affected (rings, jewelry, etc), remove it immediately- the swelling that can follow can be very dangerous simply because circulation can’t get past the constricting article. It is ideal to keep the personal relatively calm with minimal movement, as movement can spread the venom a bit faster- if possible, bring a vehicle to the person. Splinting/limiting mobility of the affected limb may be helpful (but monitor that it isn’t too tight). Keeping track of the swelling as it progresses is useful to the toxicologist who will administer antivenin- mark a line on the limb as to the extent of the swelling, or take regular photos with your phone.
No doubt the person will be in pain, and quite frightened- reassure them as much as possible, keeping them relatively calm. Know that the likelihood of death is extremely low- as a statistical example, according to the American Academy of Poison Control Centers, in 2004 there were about 2900 venomous snake bites in the US hospital system. In this particular year, there was a single fatality- and these statistics are fairly consistent from year to year, with a similar number of total bites, and typically between 0-5 fatalities. (For comparison, there were 43 lightning-related fatalities in that same year…) One of the more likely possibilities is longterm tissue damage due to tissue destruction from the hemotoxin. Neurologic effects are less common (esp. with the species of rattlesnakes in the San Jacinto mountains), but may present with some disorientation or weakness- in rare cases, it can depress respiratory drive, requiring ‘rescue breathing’ until the patient receives full treatment.
Things you should NOT do: No cutting or suction of any kind- it’s completely ineffective, and potentially dangerous- none of the mechanical devices you may have seen have any usefulness to them. No tourniquets or constriction bands- they won’t significantly reduce the movement of venom, and place the entire limb at risk because of lack of circulation. Ice has no value in slowing the spread of venom, and can be harmful if overused. Very simply, you need to get the person to a hospital that is skilled with the use of antivenin. (Do NOT capture/kill the snake and bring it to the hospital- it is not necessary for treatment, and creates risk to others.) You will probably want to initiate this by calling 9-1-1, but there can be circumstances where transporting the person yourself may be desirable, or meeting an ambulance at some location enroute to the hospital- if you choose to transport them yourself, contact the receiving hospital and let them know you are enroute. They need to get to that facility quickly, but *safely*.
Not every hospital will have antivenin- it’s not available at any of the clinics or fire department in Idyllwild, as it is complicated to use and requires strong expertise. Eisenhower Hospital in Palm Springs is a good choice, but probably the best choice is Loma Linda University Hospital- they are a world-renowned research hospital in this type of toxicology. There is a very strong likelihood that any patient from Idyllwild will eventually be referred to, or transported to Loma Linda for this type of care.
I won’t go into too much technical depth on antivenin, except to say it has much improved over the years, and has far fewer complications than earlier versions (though typical treatment costs are very, very high). A skilled hospital will make good decisions on how best to use that antivenin (or whether to use it at all, in some cases). The antivenin that is used is the same for all types of rattlesnakes (and pit vipers, in general)- a key reason why bringing the snake in for identification is *not necessary*.
Because of their much smaller size, the risk of fatality to dogs is quite high. Avoidance is probably the best strategy, keeping dogs leashed while on any trails (there ave been several dog bites in the Idyllwild area over the years, and a dog fatality in County Park a few years ago related to an unleashed dog on the trails). There is a ‘vaccination’ available for dogs, but it isn’t a *true* vaccination- in some cases, it has been found to lessen the effects of the venom, but is not consistent. Aside from keeping them leashed, one of the better options is ‘Snake Aversion Training’- this trains the dog to simply avoid the snakes altogether. There is a program called ‘Natural Solutions’ that has provided this training in the Idyllwild area at least once a year, however they provide these trainings regularly across Southern California. (More information can be found at the link above.)
If your dog is bitten, you will need to find immediate veterinary care- the ability of veterinary doctors to provide rattlesnake antivenin therapy can vary (and their hours are usually limited), so if such an emergency occurs during business hours and you prefer your regular vet, you may choose to start there. (It is a very good idea to know this *before* an emergency!) The following veterinary hospitals are the closest 24 hour emergency vets to Idyllwild that have the ability to provide rattlesnake antivenin therapy:
VCA Murrieta 951-600-9803 39809 Avenida Acacias Ste. E Murrieta, CA 92563
Emergency Pet Clinic 951-695-5044 27443 Jefferson Ave. Temecula, CA. 92590
Hopefully this information is useful, though it is worth keeping this hazard in perspective- rattlesnakes have been in this area much longer than we have, and for all of the encounters that occur with them in our yards or on the trails, bites are very uncommon (let alone fatalities). During ‘snake season’, keeping an eye out for them will go a long way towards avoiding any kind of emergency.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Mission: To maintain a safe space to build sacred community.
furpeople54
Aug 2, 2023, 11:17:10 AM
Great information John. Thanks!
Reverence for all life…
1mtn.tomboy
Aug 2, 2023, 1:48:23 PM
What an informative article!! Wow!! Thank you for your knowledge. Dave H. has current, cool picture of nature. Rattlesnake included. Thanks John. Had a baby in yard, last year. Be safe, everyone . Hard to spot.
grams…@
Aug 2, 2023, 2:33:40 PM
Pics for visual reference.
This was from last year. He/she? was relocated out and away from town and people.
kellyvisel
Aug 2, 2023, 2:44:57 PM
We haven’t spotted a rattlesnake at our house in many years, but I will definitely be on high alert now. Thanks for the relocation resources, John. Ed Huddleston also does snake catch & release, not sure about his rates though; 659-4714 or through Facebook DM to Elaine Huddleston.
I realize some of you may not be on the Facebook forums (good for you, honestly.) So you may not have seen that there have been a few catalytic converter thefts here on the mountain. It’s definitely something to be aware of and to keep an eye out for.
As you might know, the gated driveway on County Park Road serves as a parking spot for people who are looking for a hidden place to party, etc. Last night around midnight, there was reportedly an altercation that resulted in repeated cries for help. I didn’t hear this personally because of the strange way sound travels in the forest. But I’m aware that the Sheriff was called and arrived within 15 minutes. But, it is appears that the people involved had left by that time.
The reason why I’m posting this is because I walked over to the gated driveway and found at least six used condoms and two empty condom boxes on the ground. This, of course, is disgusting litter. But what makes my blood boil is the idea that someone was crying out for help. So, even if this began consensually, it didn’t end that way.
I was told that there was some clothing down by the creek but now that clothing is gone. My hope is that the Sheriff picked up the clothing as evidence. I’m not going to clear away the condom garbage for the same reason. And the owners of that property are responsible for keeping their property clean. I pick up garbage their occasionally but this is something entirely different.
I’m hoping that the owners of the gated driveway will consider options for monitoring their property. Last year, I reported that their fence had been cut and this was quickly repaired. Clearly this driveway is attracting the wrong element.
Again, I did not hear the cries for help nor did I see the vehicle. But other neighbors did and will be keeping a watchful eye out. The reason why I’m posting this is because this turnout is a known hangout for people who are up to no good. And my heart breaks for whomever found themselves in that situation last night regardless of what bad decisions placed them there.
With sadness and a tinge of anger,
Dawn
kathystyles01
Jun 12, 2023, 12:40:38 PM
Hi Dawn…not sure exactly where this is. I thought there was a water district propert with a chain link locked gate on the right, heading toward the park. Is there a house connected with the gate you are referring to?
Thanks
Kathh
Genevieve Alvarado
Jun 12, 2023, 9:04:37 PM
So we think the party responsible for the littering of condoms have returned. They’re not making a scene or anything so don’t know if we should call the sheriff or not. We’re also not sure if they’re related to the situation late last night. How would one go about a situation like this?
dianedarcy7
Jun 12, 2023, 9:07:03 PM
I would call sheriff to investigate. Response time is slow sometimes.
John Jacobs
Jun 13, 2023, 7:59:58 AM
Genevieve-
Absolutely- call the sheriff any time you observe suspicious activity in the neighborhood. They would be very much interested in the type of incident that has been described here.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549
Not wishing to put anyone in excessive risk, but taking discrete pics of vehicles, license plate, or questionable individuals would probably be a great help.
dianedarcy7
Jun 13, 2023, 10:50:57 AM
I have given Genevieve and Ezekiel the info on the car. They will follow up with sheriff.
Excerpted emails from ‘IWD water & sewer rate increase, Spring 2023’
Mary Stroud wrote on 5/18/23 4:07 PM: On a side note, our family has been noticing that the water quality from the tap is quite poor lately; the water is visibly cloudy – alarmingly so when we changed the water in our fish tank. We contacted IWD and Brian came out to test our water about two weeks ago. The reading for chlorine was .09 And should normally be above 1, as Brian explained it to me. He tested the water at other points on the street and found the same results. He also opened up the fire hydrant at the end of the street to try to clear the lines, with little to no effect. I have noticed the same cloudiness when visiting friends and also when eating out at restaurants in town. It seems to me a district-wide issue, but what do I know? I’m not a water scientist or field tech, I just know when water doesn’t appear right in my water glass.
Kelly Visel wrote on 5/18/23 4:24 PM:
Mary – Yes! Our water has been tasting and looking off as well. I thought it was the filter in our fridge, but we changed it and haven’t seen any changes in water quality.
Sheila Zacker wrote on 5/21/23 10:19 AM:
I have noticed my water after it stands in the glass for a few hours has a murky film on the top. This is happening on South Circle and the water smells very strong of chemicals.
John Jacobs
May 22, 2023, 10:35:24 AM
Neighbors-
(I have started a separate email thread to focus on the water quality concerns that have been raised by numerous residents in the last few weeks, and separate them from IWD’s rate increase proposals.)
I just returned from a discussion with Leo Havener, General Manager of IWD, regarding the water quality issue that has been observed by many residents. I brought with me a sample of water drawn from my own kitchen tap about an hour previous to this discussion, a brand new bottle of water purchased from Fairway minutes prior, and two clean glasses. I poured them into each glass for comparison:
The glass on the left is the bottled water. Glass on the right is Idyllwild tap water. Leo is in the background.
Leo said that he is aware of numerous calls and comments from IWD customers (not solely along Pine Crest/Riv Co Play Rd) regarding this issue over the last few weeks. He says that IWD’s crews have flushed the lines in the Pine Crest area, and have tested the water three times, and the test results have not identified any kind of health concern with the water. He pointed out that clarity is not considered a health issue as far as water regulation is concerned, and he did acknowledge that there is an obvious difference. He said he genuinely does not know what has changed in the system that has resulted in the water clarity issue.
I pointed out that this clarity issue is relatively recent (last several weeks), and that there is obviously some kind of change that occurred in the system that has had this impact. I pointed out that while it may indeed pose no health risk, it is an obvious aesthetic problem that is going to cause alarm with any user who closely inspects their water, and that better communication should be distributed to all customers regarding this status. I also commented on the fact that this quality issue comes at a particularly difficult time, given that IWD is pushing for a significant water rate increase.
The overall tone of this conversation remained rational, however Leo was very firm in his belief that there is nothing wrong with the quality of the water. He also stated his belief that there are a good many customers (and residents) in Idyllwild who tend to be generally unhappy with anything, under any conditions. (These are virtually his own words.) His resistance was quite clear, and further discussion didn’t seem to have much positive potential, so I ended it.
Apparently one local resident has contacted a California Water Board regarding this issue, stating that they have noticed this problem, communicated it to IWD, and the conditions have not changed. They have also requested further testing of the water. That reply may be forthcoming.
For the time being, my own suggestion is to continue to communicate your concerns to IWD, especially if you haven’t already done so. If you are aware of other residents outside of the Pine Crest/Riv Co Play Rd area who are experiencing the same issues, strongly encourage them to contact IWD as well. It is important to identify that this issue is not a problem specific to this neighborhood, but is system-wide. 951-659-2143
Please continue posting up to this email thread with your experiences with the water, and any interactions you have with IWD (or any other water quality resource).
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Jacob Booher
May 22, 2023, 6:52:52 PM
John, thanks for recounting your meeting and creating this new thread.
I also engaged with IWD this morning and similarly learned nothing of value.
IWD saying essentially, “we don’t know why our water tastes and looks very different but you shouldn’t worry about it” isn’t very helpful. Although these changes are likely the result of something innocuous, it’s unreasonable to expect us to simply trust IWD’s seemingly unfounded assertion of that.
The state has established drinking water quality standards designed to protect human health. IWD’s water must live up to those standards. I simply want IWD to confirm its water is currently meeting those standards. If IWD has performed water quality testing to confirm no contaminants of concern are present in our now-cloudy water, they should tell us that and be willing to show us the results. If they have not already performed that testing, they should do it ASAP. It’s a small ask to give us all some peace of mind. I’ll be telling this to IWD leadership tomorrow.
I made the Division of Drinking Water (DDW) at the State Water Resources Control Board aware of this situation. DDW is the regulatory body responsible for overseeing IWD’s water quality. I was able to speak with Jeanne Sabin, who oversees our area and is very familiar with IWD. Based on what I told her about the situation, she was unable to think of a probable cause. She is going to investigate the situation by speaking with IWD’s plant manager. I asked that she/DDW come up and test the water. She is not yet persuaded that it’s a necessity, but will consider doing so. Should you want to reach out to DDW, you can email DWPD…@waterboards.ca.gov. Please note that this email address is not routed directly to Jeanne, but someone will forward your email to her.
Should this issue persist without a reasonable explanation from IWD or DDW, we could have our water tested by a private company. Just throwing out that option of last resort for later consideration.
Sincerely,
Jacob
dawn.p…@
May 23, 2023, 2:12:14 PM
Hi Neighbors,
I so appreciate that we have this dialog amongst our neighbors. And I also support being persistent with IWD and also perhaps getting the water quality tested.
But I want to let some of the newer residents know that this is not a new problem. We have had intermittent issues with water color for all the years that we’ve lived in IDY. I was told by IWD many years ago that we occasionally have issues with manganese. https://wqa.org/resources/manganese/
I used to be friends with a past President of the IWD Board and he told me that it was caused when the fire department flushed hydrants or when Idy Arts or Idy Pines filled up their pool.
At one time I did some research and learned not use bleach to try to clean my white tub or to put bleach in a load of white clothing. Apparently, bleach just makes the staining worse. But I also thought that I read that manganese was not toxic and in the link above I’m seeing information that conflicts with what I thought I knew.
One or both of us should be back in IDY again on a regular basis by the end of the week. And then, I’ll engage in our IWD issues. Both of these issues are important (rate hikes and water quality).
Dawn
Kelly Schlenz
May 23, 2023, 2:21:36 PM
Hey Dawn,
I am the director over at Idyllwild Pines. I saw the mention of the fill of our pool impacting water clarity in the past. This should have only been the case when the old pool at the end of lower pine crest was in operation as that is the only section of Idyllwild Pines (previously another camp) that is exclusively on Idyllwild Water. Our other pool when it needs filling is done so off our wells, the only practice was to drain the pool every year, we only do that now when we have to. Thankfully with improvements over time to our systems our usage to the towns system has pretty drastically decreased. Just wanted to add some clarity in case there was concern.
Just wondering if anyone has noted a change in the water quality issue that developed about six or eight weeks ago. Personally, I haven’t noted any improvement in the clarity- it remains slightly white/cloudy, though I haven’t noticed any significant change in taste, smell or feeling about the water. Just kinda disconcerting to see that very slight milky haze…
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
dawn.p…@
Jun 12, 2023, 10:36:34 AM
I do see it and realize you weren’t talking about manganese. We have a super duper filter for drinking water so I’m not too worried but it isn’t as clear as before.
Dawn Papaila
kyoshinvelez
Jun 12, 2023, 11:00:42 AM
I put a glass out overnight, and it was basically clear, but seemed to have some tiny particles in it.
Thanks for all your efforts, John. I am concerned if there’s any issue with the water quality, as there was some years ago.
Thank you,
Valerie Velez
Jacob Booher
Jun 12, 2023, 11:20:04 AM
The water is still cloudy at our house.
More than two weeks ago I asked IWD to send me the results of the water quality testing they said they performed near us on Riverside County Playground Road. I also asked to see the recent results of the daily testing they perform and any other recent water quality tests. Only today did IWD start sending me relevant results. So far they’ve sent only a small subset of what I’ve requested. I hope the remainder will follow soon.
I’ll be reviewing all results IWD shares with me against the state’s water quality standards. I’ll also be sharing all results with my contact at the Division of Drinking Water to ensure we have a water quality scientist’s perspective on the results.
Another Town Hall meeting convened last Wednesday to further discuss issues related to Short Term Rentals (STR) in the Idyllwild area- Supervisor Manuel Perez was present, along with John Hildebrand (Planning Director, RivCo), and the STR panel consisting of several locals who have interests in this issue. While the general tone was far less combative than the infamous meeting last fall, there was still a fair amount of very vocal responses to various comments that were made.
The Town Hall meeting that was conducted on May 1 seemed to be pretty balanced with voices from both sides of the issues, however at this recent meeting, there was a clear increase in the number of persons who have strong support for STR’s in Idyllwild, and far fewer voices who prefer to see limitation & regulation. Here is a summary provided by Woody Henderson, one of the voices who generally supports limitation and regulation of STR’s:
From: Captain Woody <captai…@gmail.com> Date: May 26, 2023 at 1:54:54 PM PDT To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject:Fwd: May 24 Meeting with Supervisor Perez on Short-Term Rental Policy in Idyllwild/Mountain Communities
Solution groups,
We are entering a new phase, very exciting ;).
Below is a recap of Wednesday night’s meeting and my thoughts. Yes, similar to my update on the Fb.
Interesting meeting.
The county says that 12% of our homes are STRs. And there are additional people in town that support them. But the public meeting did not represent the majority of voting residents of our town.
We did not have the heart to ask our laid back residents to attend yet another meeting loaded with people, many from offhill, who groan when residents comment and woop and holler when STR talking points are expressed. We asked them instead to write to the Perez office. And we hope that the Perez office will read them and count them.
So far, not so good. One of our solution group peeps in contact with the Perez office was just told that the town’s density limit request will likely come off the table. So no relief for residents who are surrounded.
Supervisor Perez said in the meeting, that Cap was a maybe. Cap and density were top voted solutions from residents as well as STR owners who understand the pitfalls of flooding their own market.
And then the zinger: supervisor Perez is going to work on getting our precious moratorium ended early to give out more certs sooner. Coming soon: STRs to a property line near you.
For those still reading, ha, there was a brightside. By the end of the meeting my mind was full and excited to move on to the real solutions that resident groups have been pushing for. Full enough that when I was finally asked to speak, I was a little distracted.
Cap/density was fair. It’s being dismissed. This is a greenlight to pursue actual solutions that cut out entities who are not interested in a fair middle ground.
I feel good about this transition.
As always, if you have someone on your road that are affected by STRs and are interested in updates, do forward. Or send my email.
Woody
Expressing your view of this issue is still very much valued- Supervisor Perez’s office can be reached at: dist…@rivco.org
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
dawn.p…@
May 30, 2023, 8:15:23 AM
Thanks John. What is Woody referring to when he says, “ This is a greenlight to pursue actual solutions that cut out entities who are not interested in a fair middle ground.”
Dawn Papaila
kellyvisel
May 30, 2023, 9:27:10 AM
Seriously, Dawn. It sounds like a proposal to seek vigilante solutions rather than adhere to a county decision if it goes against what he wants.
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize.
John Jacobs
May 30, 2023, 9:42:41 AM
Having attended most of the STR meetings and Town Halls, and observing Woody’s presence at these meetings, I have not had the impression that he is particularly aggressive or subversive in his views of how to manage this issue. That said, I’m not clear on what his exact meaning was in that statement- some clarification from him would be helpful.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549
I think this is important to share with you all. If you don’t agree, I apologize. IWD is currently doing a 5-year rate study and at the last board meeting considered raising water rates 8% per year and sewer rates 10% per year! This would double your current rates in approximately 8 years! If you feel that this is ridiculous as I do, please contact President Schelly or VP Szabadi to let them know that you are not in agreement. When it comes up for a vote in a couple months, enough written disagreements will cancel their plans. IWD loves to waste our rate payer funds on new trucks and office remodels, and has put off the new sewer plant construction so that a $2M plant is now $8M and they have not applied for any grant funding that I am aware of. We all know that rates need to increase, but IWD needs to be more conservative with spending and scale down projects to a more realistic level. Please let our fellow rate payers know about this if you can. I am not on social media, but community groups like Idyllwild Eye News and others should hopefully get a post. Attend the board meetings if you can. Thanks for your time 🙂
Dave Hunt
ibotmountain
Feb 20, 2023, 10:32:15 AM
Will do. Iva
davahunt
Apr 18, 2023, 6:34:54 AM
Hi all,
I think that everyone on this list is also on sewer with IWD. They are planning on doubling our current rate with a 13% increase per year for 5 years so they can build a new $8-10 MILLION new treatment facility. The IWD Board wants the customers to pay for it without any grant funding. I think that it can be paid for completely with infrastructure grant dollars. If more than half of the customers vote NO, it can’t pass due to Prop. 218. I hope we all band together to make IWD be more fiscally responsible and caring toward their customers. Many residents simply cannot afford this increase. PLEASE spread the word. Thanks so much!
This meeting is especially important, as I understand this proposed rate change is close to being approved. This is a good opportunity to learn more about this, and express your views. Bring a neighbor, and tell a local resident to attend. _________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
dawn.p…@
Apr 18, 2023, 5:41:20 PM
A few of us are on septic…those of us on the wrong side of the County Park Road. I guess maybe that’s not a bad thing. 🙂
Dawn Papaila
kyoshinvelez
Apr 18, 2023, 5:45:41 PM
I had the same question, though it doesn’t make the rate increase good.
Will those of us not on sewer have the same rate increase? Just wondering. Again, not because I’m favorable to it.
Having been a grant writer for much of my professional life, I’m curious why they don’t want to utilize grants.
I know that getting questions answered here does not help the outcome, so I should try to attend the meeting tomorrow.
Thank you,
Valerie Velez
davahunt
Apr 19, 2023, 6:33:58 AM
Water customers will get 8% increase per year. Sewer customers get 13% per year. They should still have to take a board vote on the increase options because the last vote was on a discussion item and not an action item (which was a Brown Act violation). There is an 8% option that includes a $4M dollar grant funding for sewer that I hope they will vote for if enough customers are at the meeting requesting it. It will then have 45 days for feedback from customers and if more than half submit a written NO vote (which must be turned in at the office) from a card that will be mailed out, it cannot pass (Prop. 218)
lupuspaganus
Apr 19, 2023, 11:36:49 AM
Dave,
Thank you for your leadership and guidance on this matter. Is there a way for a fee-paying residence to vote in absentia? Since I am Africa, can I have someone cast a ballot on my behalf?
I understand the need to upgrade facilities, but a grant and user-paid blended model seems more reasonable in this case compared to a full use-pays approach.
In either case, I hope the process at least adheres to established IWD governance protocols and is fully transparent.
Best regards and thanks again for your efforts.
Hal Carey
dawn.p…@
Apr 19, 2023, 12:49:24 PM
Hi Dave,
We are also off the Hill. Please share the date and time of this important meeting and if we can have someone vote for us in our absence. Perhaps there is an email address that we can use to submit our support of the 8% raise supplemented by $4M in grant funding.
Thank you. I regret that my first reply seemed glib.
Dawn
dianedarcy7
Apr 19, 2023, 12:51:43 PM
Go to Idyllwild Water District website. Look at board member page to find the email addresses.
davahunt
Apr 19, 2023, 1:07:25 PM
Hi Hal,
Hope all is well! If the neighbors are the bill payers, they can vote instead of the owner. Thanks!
Dave
davahunt
Apr 19, 2023, 1:10:05 PM
The actual ballots will be sent in the mail and can be returned via mail. The meeting is tonight at 6pm at the IWD office
kellyvisel
Apr 19, 2023, 1:28:20 PM
Hi All,
I saw a zoom link on the website Jon previously sent with tonight’s agenda. If you’re off the hill, it seems like a good alternative to attending the meeting.
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize.
dawn.p…@
Apr 19, 2023, 2:44:55 PM
Hi Neighbors,
I had not idea that the water district had a website…they seemed to quaint for that. 🙂
Anyway, I can’t find a Zoom link to tonight’s meeting so if someone has that information, please pass it on. I skimmed this long thread but I don’t see it.
The Zoom link and meeting info is pasted below. I pulled it from the first page of today’s Board of Directors meeting agenda, which contains a scanned and nonfunctional version of the link.
I just sent an email to the BOD. I shared that as an IWD rate payer for the past 19 years, I support the upgrade and I also expect that they will seek grant funding to supplement the cost. I will also attend the meeting via Zoom.
Dawn
John Jacobs
Apr 19, 2023, 4:36:51 PM
Dawn-
If you haven’t already sent that message to the IWD Board, you might consider holding off until after the meeting- there has been only a limited amount of effort IWD has invested in making this proposed rate change public, and there may very well be new information presented there that shapes your view.
Personally, I’m a bit (lot) skeptical, and there are several elements that I need more clarification on. For starters, the agenda that was previously posted on the IWD website contained several documents detailing the current status of IWD rate payers, and the projected cost increases of this proposal. These two documents show where IWD water and sewer rates are in comparison to other areas.
(These docs are not in the Agenda posted for tonight- no idea why they were replaced, or if they are located elsewhere.) As you can see, both the water and sewer rates are already on the higher end of all of the examples provided. This rate increase would place IWD rates clearly at the highest of all of these areas (on or off the Hill).
Several years ago, there was a rate increase proposed & passed by an earlier board- if I remember correctly, the increased revenue was intended for various capital improvements in the system well into the future. What happened to those funds?
I understand IWD has applied for grants in the past for sewer treatment plant improvements, apparently one some time around 2020 that the Board turned down?
If this grant that is being considered as a means to offset rate increases, what happens if the grant doesn’t get approved? Or is delayed? Or the next Board turns it away?
As I understand it, roughly 1/3 of IWD customers have sewer connections (perhaps far less). If the primary goal is to improve the sewer treatment capacity, why are those without sewer connection paying higher water rates?
Who is the group that was contracted to do this rate increase proposal, and why were they chosen? Were any other consulting firms considered?
Why is IWD currently renting office space here on the Hill while one of their offices are being repaired/remodelled? There is a very nice, recently (expensively) remodeled meeting room at the main office that could certainly serve as adequate temporary office space, and incur less cost (that is ultimately borne by rate payers).
There is talk of building a new office space at Foster Lake- is this *really* necessary? These office space expenses are costly, and seem quite extravagant in the context of proposing a dramatic rate increase to customers.
No doubt many other questions will come to mind tonight. These rate increases are significant, and will be permanent. I need to be convinced they are necessary before supporting them.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
kellyvisel
Apr 19, 2023, 9:36:25 PM
The Zoom audio was horrendous, I couldn’t hear most of the meeting. I hope those who attended in person made an impact on the board, I’ll keep an eye on our mailbox for our chance to provide input on this.
– Kelly
davahunt
May 15, 2023, 4:57:19 PM
Here is a graph that makes pretty clear what IWD is planning on doing if you are a sewer ratepayer. The yellow bar is where we will be in 5 years. We can stop this from happening if more than half of the customers send in a written protest. If the rate increase does not pass, IWD will be forced to get full grant funding. Please spread the word. Thanks 🙂
Dave Hunt
dawn.p…@
May 15, 2023, 5:57:03 PM
I wrote my email a few weeks ago. 👍
Dawn
davahunt
May 16, 2023, 6:30:54 AM
Everyone please remember that a written hard copy statement of opposition is required by Prop 218 in order to be counted. it can’t be emailed, phoned in, verbal, etc. and must include name, signature, street address and account number. Opposition letters will be counted at the public hearing June 21. If more than half of the sewer customers oppose, it can’t pass.
Thanks!
dawn.p…@
May 16, 2023, 3:21:32 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Dave. How “old school.” 😎
John Jacobs
May 18, 2023, 3:43:28 PM
Neighbors-
Idyllwild Water District mailed out a ‘Notice of Public Hearing’ this week detailing their plans for a significant rate increase to both water and sewer rates for customers served by IWD. This rate increase has been in consideration by the Board of Directors for some time, and it is now moving to a point of implementation.
Dave Hunt’s email (May 15) included a graph showing a comparison of water and sewer rates between various water districts in the vicinity, in comparison to IWD- this original graph (illustrating sewer rates, amended by Dave- see below) was created by Bartles Wells Associates, the consulting firm selected by the IWD General Manager and approved by the Board of Directors to conduct a feasibility study. It is worth noting that IWD’s rates are already near the highest of any of those compared, and the proposed rate increase would raise them clearly to the highest level (over twice the average of other service providers).
There are 4 variations that the Board considered for the sewer/wastewater treatment plan, ranging from 8% – 15% increases in rates, depending on receiving grant funds to supplement the cost (these variations are available in the agenda of the March 29 special meeting). The rationale for the options including grant funds is that if a grant was received, the rates would be adjusted downwards accordingly (one would be reasonably skeptical about a utility providing such a rate decrease, especially given the historic instability of IWD’s Board of Directors and General Management). It is noteworthy that the proposed plan in this Public Hearing Notice did not include any mention of these grant funds at all– it simply includes one of the highest proposed rate plans.
Besides these concerns, there are many other considerations and implications to this rate increase, including the history of IWD’s rate increases and how those funds have been spent on various capital projects, other alternatives to repairing or replacing the wastewater treatment plant, not to mention the dramatic financial impact these rates will have on low and fixed income households.
If this plan is concerning to you, your voice needs to be heard very soon- IWD will be conducting two Town Hall meetings on this plan- Tuesday, May 30 and Wednesday, May 31, at 5 pm at the Idyllwild Town Hall. Public opinion will be heard at this time, and IWD staff will be present along with representatives from Bartles Wells Associates.
The Board of Directors will meet on June 21, 2023 to finalize this plan. If more than half of either the water or sewer rate payers submit valid, written objections to either (or both) plans, the plans will not be implemented as proposed. (There are currently about ~600 sewer connections in Idyllwild Water District, so over 300 objections must be received.)
The ‘Letters of Protest’ (IWD’s phrase, not mine) must be formatted in a very specific manner to be considered valid- attached is a document that details how to write a Letter of Protest, and how to submit it. Part of that document includes a form that simply needs to have your information typed into it, then printed out, and physically signed (*not* electronic- very important!). The deadline for submission of these Letters is June 21, 2023– now is the time to make your voice heard on this issue, and please pass this along via any social media or email forwarding! _________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
maryestroud
May 18, 2023, 4:08:11 PM
John thank you so much for sending this very helpful information.
On a side note, our family has been noticing that the water quality from the tap is quite poor lately; the water is visibly cloudy – alarmingly so when we changed the water in our fish tank. We contacted IWD and Brian came out to test our water about two weeks ago. The reading for chlorine was .09 And should normally be above 1, as Brian explained it to me. He tested the water at other points on the street and found the same results. He also opened up the fire hydrant at the end of the street to try to clear the lines, with little to no effect. I have noticed the same cloudiness when visiting friends and also when eating out at restaurants in town. It seems to me a district-wide issue, but what do I know? I’m not a water scientist or field tech, I just know when water doesn’t appear right in my water glass.
For now, our family has stopped drinking the water. I’m just posting this in case other people have similar concerns. You can definitely call the office and have them come test your water. I was told the issue was being escalated but have not heard from anyone in several days. Perhaps if others find similar concerns, more communication with the powers that be would be helpful in getting the issue resolved.
-Mary Stroud
kellyvisel
May 18, 2023, 4:24:59 PM
We’ll definitely send in our protest letter. Unfortunately, we’ll be out of town the week of the 30th; do we think it’s a coincidence that they scheduled this for the week after a holiday weekend?
Mary – Yes! Our water has been tasting and looking off as well. I thought it was the filter in our fridge, but we changed it and haven’t seen any changes in water quality.
John Jacobs
May 18, 2023, 4:30:40 PM
Yes, I have seen the same issues related to the water, and several other residents along Pine Crest have had similar observations. I’ve talked with two persons at IWD in the last three days about this- they are aware of it, and apparently they did some flushing of lines yesterday that they hope will improve conditions- I was told it may take a few days to clarify. (Apparently there are other areas outside of Pine Crest that have had similar issues lately.)
I agree- if it doesn’t improve in the next few days, contact IWD: 951.659.2143
I’d like to suggest keeping this email thread focused on IWD’s rate increase proposal, as it will provide more usefulness if it is targeted.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
maryestroud
May 18, 2023, 4:40:46 PM
Yes! Apologies to deflect from the rate hike issue. Let’s definitely stay on course with the protest letters in this thread.
sheila
May 21, 2023, 10:19:31 AM
I have noticed my water after it stands in the glass for a few hours has a murky film on the top. This is happening on South Circle and the water smells very strong of chemicals.
John Jacobs
May 25, 2023, 10:04:18 AM
Neighbors-
The IWD Public Hearings on the proposed water and sewer rate increases are upcoming- next Tuesday, May 30 and Wednesday, May 31, at 5 pm at Town Hall.
These Hearings will be include IWD Board of Directors and the Bartles Wells Associates consulting firm (who created the proposal), and will be the only currently scheduled opportunity for public questions and commentary to IWD, before the Board meets to finalize the proposal on June 21. Some key considerations:
Letters of Protest Both the water and sewer rate increase proposals will require reconsideration by the Board if Letters of Protest are received from at least half the rate payers (of each service). Due to Proposition 218, these letters must be in a very specific format, as described below.
Eligibility of Letters Per the terms of Prop 218, a Letter of Protest is only deemed valid for either the water or sewer rate proposal if it is written by the person who owns the property where the sewer &/or water connection is provided (or the tenant who regularly pays that bill). As a result, there are numerous properties on Pine Crest (between Maranatha and Riv Co Play Rd) that are owned by a single person, however there are multiple units/tenants in a single building that has a single water & sewer connection. As an example, along this section of Pine Crest there is a group of three homes owned by a single person, with a single water and sewer connection, yet there are 15 individual ‘apartments’ in these buildings, with 1-4 persons in each ‘apartment’. In spite of the fact there are ~50 people living in these buildings, only one Letter of Protest will be eligible, though there are (in effect) 15 rate payers for water or sewer service in these three buildings. (This is only one example of multiple such arrangements along Pine Crest.) This hardly seems to provide an equitable view of rate payers on these proposals, and needs clarification by the Board.
Tallying of Letters As I understand it, the Board intends to tally each of these letters at their June 21 meeting. Given that there are nearly 600 sewer connections and 1700 water connections in IWD, and each of these letters may state opposition to either the water or sewer proposals (or both), and the likely difficulty of interpreting the intent of some of those letters, it does not seem practical to be able to tally them adequately while this meeting is in session. Moreover, who will be tallying the letters, and will reasonable criteria be utilized to verify each letters intent, or to possibly disqualify them? There seems to be a tremendous opportunity for the voice of ratepayers to be marginalized in this process.
Confidence in IWD to effectively use increased revenues IWD has implemented rate increases in the recent past, stating they were intended to be used for various capital improvement projects (esp. in the water system). In the interest of having confidence that the current management will effectively use these new revenues, can some evidence be shown of how those past revenue increases were spent, and if they aligned with the capital expenses that were used to justify them?
As noted by many residents, water quality has suffered very recently, and the IWD management response has effectively been ‘we don’t know why it has changed, the water is fine’- this doesn’t inspire any real confidence in the current management, let alone appropriately using a significant revenue increase.
Comparative rates As demonstrated by Bartles Wells Associates data (see graph in 5/18/23 email, below), IWD water and sewer rates are already well above the average, and near the highest of many services of comparable services in this area- these proposed rate increases will push IWD to the highest end.
Grant funding IWD has described the integration of grant funding to offset some of the costs of the sewer system improvements, stating that if these grants were received, rates would be adjusted downward accordingly. Does IWD really expect rate payers to believe that such a downward rate adjustments would be made? Isn’t it more in the interest of rate payers to secure these grants first, then adjust rates as needed?
Alternatives Did IWD consider any other consulting firm besides Bartles Wells Associates? Why were they selected to provide this proposal? What alternatives have been considered to address the water and sewer system IWD issues? How will IWD proceed with addressing these issues if one or both of these proposals do not receive approval?
There are certainly many more issues to these rate increase proposals- please post up your own thoughts here in this thread for others to consider. Most importantly, strongly consider attending one or both of the Town Hall meetings next week, and be sure to submit a Letter of Protest before the deadline to state your views clearly to IWD management. (Bring a neighbor to the meeting, and forward or distribute this information via whatever social media you prefer!)
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
John Jacobs
May 30, 2023, 5:09:44 PM
Apparently, the IWD ‘Town Hall’ meetings are located at the IWD Board Room of their main office…not at Town Hall..
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549
Takeaways from the two Town Hall meetings regarding the water and sewer rate increase proposal- I will try to recount them as objectively as reasonably possible:
The first meeting was attended by 9 persons- 4 of which are resident/ratepayers, plus IWD’s General Manager (GM) and the Chief Financial Officer, the IWD Board President, the consultant from Bartles Wells, and a reporter from the Town Crier. The second meeting was attended by 6 persons- 2 residents, IWD’s General Manager, the Bartles Wells consultant, an employee of Fern Valley Water District, and the Town Crier reporter. The Bartles Wells consultant laid out the plan and rationale, then it was opened to questions.
General The observation was called out that both the water and sewer rates currently have IWD customers in the upper end of comparative systems in the Southern California area, and the proposal will result in IWD rates being at the highest end of any of those systems. The response from the Bartles consultant was that this is true, and is a function of the fact that the other comparative systems will also see rate changes over time, thus moderating this comparison.
Sewer rates Much of the discussion in both meetings centered on the sewage treatment plant, the need for replacement, the process of how IWD plans to fund it (via rate increases and grants). When the question of securing grant funds first (and then creating rate increases accordingly) was raised, IWD management responded that they don’t believe grants can be pursued with grant programs until a district can show their customers also support the project (via an approved rate increase).
Skepticism was expressed regarding IWD’s plan to downward adjust rates when grant funds are received. In response to a suggestion to create a clear mechanism in the proposal that would ensure this would happen, the GM was very resistant to such an idea, and unwilling to consider it.
There was discussion regarding how these sewer costs will be especially burdensome for any property owner with multiple ‘Equivalent Dwelling Units’ (EDU). The current base rate (per EDU) is $44.20- within 4 years, this will nearly double to $81.44, and at the point of full implementation of the plan, will nearly triple to $119.66. For a resident with a single EDU, this will create difficulty, but is probably surmountable- but for any property owner or businesses with multiple EDU’s, this will create an extreme burden.
Frustrations were expressed regarding the fact that need for the replacement of the treatment plant has been known for a very long time, and that prior IWD Boards and management had not addressed this at a time when costs were far less. An attempt by IWD to address this project ~8 years ago had the cost at around $2 million- the efforts at that time were sidelined, and raised again near the time of the start of the current GM with an estimated cost of $4 million, and currently the cost is estimated at $7 million.
Water rates Comments made to the GM regarding the current water quality issue were met with a simple response of ‘the water has been tested, and it’s fine’. The GM repeatedly redirected the issue towards a likely problem with a specific customer’s plumbing- when it was repeatedly pointed out that the complaints have been from varying areas and obviously system-wide, this was met with redirection to the customer’s system.
There were questions related to why the proposed water rate is based upon an 8% increase (which is to cover cost increases that were not foreseen, and are likely into the future), when this kind of rate is far above the cost of living adjustments that are made by many entities to adjust for such cost increases.
The observation was made that under the proposed water rates (which reduces the ‘tier’ rate system to two tiers, down from three), that when use exceeds Tier 1, the rate for Tier 2 is *less* than Tier 1. This does not seem to encourage water conservation, and those who use less water (within Tier 1) are effectively paying more per unit than those whose use moves them into Tier 2. The IWD management acknowledged this, without any clear rationale.
Ratepayer approval/opposition Clarification questions were asked regarding how ratepayer opposition to either plan can be made. IWD management made clear that such expressions are not ‘weighted’ according to the users of either water or sewer service- the validity of any Letter of Protest is simply based on the ownership of the property (or the person who actually pays the water/sewer bill). Thus, a property that has a single water meter, yet multiple separate units (‘apartments’) within that property, may only submit a single Letter of Protest for that property. (If a single individual owns several such ‘apartment’ properties, a Letter of Protest from that owner may submit a Letter of Protest for each property. For sewer, if a single property has multiple EDU’s in it (such as properties with two homes on it, or an ‘apartment’ complex), only one Letter of Protest may be submitted for the entire property. These parameters are due to Proposition 218, and not IWD’s policies. They obviously result in a very unbalanced representation of comments on the plan- IWD acknowledges this, but does not feel there is any balancing strategy.
IWD management reiterated that Letters of Protest must be very carefully formatted (name, service address, account number, parcel number), with a clear, unambiguous statement protesting the water or sewer proposal. Two separate letters are preferred (one for each proposal), however a single letter for both proposals can be used if it *clearly* states opposition to both proposals.
IWD plans to tally these letters on June 21, and corroborate them with customer records. If there is a large number of letters received, the tally may not be able to be completed that evening, due to the time required to validate the letters.
The Bartles consultant commented that it is very uncommon for rate payers to turn back such rate increase proposals, simply due to a lack of response.
*** My personal observation and view of this process: there is a clear need to replace the existing sewage treatment plant, and the consultation source seems sound. Capital improvements and ongoing increased operating costs will likely require increased revenues to address. I have the sense that most of the management of IWD is genuine in their efforts to address these issues, especially the Board, and CFO. I am not nearly as confident in the leadership of the General Manager.
While the need for these projects seems clear, the *process* by which IWD is attempting to solve this is problematic- there is a deep level of skepticism from the Idyllwild community & IWD’s rate payers, and very little trust that these proposals are sound, and will be implemented as they have been proposed. The sewage treatment plant proposal is being presented without any real evidence of any alternatives that have been considered that might result in a more reasonable burden to the rate payers- it’s pretty much ‘This is the plan. The *only* plan’. While my gut says that the need and numbers being presented are reasonable, the ‘optics’ of how IWD management goes about trying to achieve do nothing to inspire the trust they seem to expect from ratepayers. IWD management could clearly use the a good Public Relations service to help communicate their position more clearly to ratepayers and the community.
At this time, I am generally inclined to oppose the sewer rate proposal, primarily because I’d like to have greater confidence that other alternative strategies have been considered that will achieve the replacement of the treatment plant, at the most reasonable cost possible, and distribute those costs reasonably to the rate payers. The water rate proposal, while it will result in increased rates, seems to be based on simple realities of cost increases and uniformly spreads those costs among all rate payers, and my current inclination is to support it.
I’m sure some of the other attendees or IWD customers have other views on these meetings and proposals. Please share them.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
papaila
Jun 2, 2023, 6:23:45 PM
Thanks for the update John.
Much appreciated!
Dan & Dawn Papaila
dianedarcy7
Jun 3, 2023, 1:38:15 PM
After attending the past 2 IWD board meetings, as well as the informational Town Hall on Tuesday, I have spent quite some time balancing my apprehension of rate increases along with the need for an improved sewer system. Of course I prefer not to pay more than equitable; however, the need for a sewer solution has been “kicked down the road” for far too long. With each delay, the costs increase more and more ($2 million 8 years ago, 4 million 3 years ago, and now a projection of 7 million). My gut tells me not to oppose the sewer increase. In order for the state to support us with grants, Idyllwild sewer customers need to demonstrate financial “buy in.”
However, I won’t be ending my involvement. I plan to address Supervisor Perez, Representative Ken Calvert, and Senator Alex Padilla to ask for support to facilitate the grant process. My feeling is that the sewer customers of Idyllwild bear a tremendous responsibility for enriching the mountain communities of Idyllwild, as well as Fern Valley, Pine Cove, Mountain Center, Stonewood, and Garner Valley. Our sewer system supports the flourishing of the commercial district, restaurants, hotels, camps, South Bay Cable, Idyllwild School, and Idyllwild Arts. The sewer system is an integral component of our Mile High lifestyle. We deserve state funding to offset rate payer costs.
sheila
Jun 4, 2023, 10:48:23 AM
I like your thinking John and am in agreement.
dawn.p…@
Jun 4, 2023, 4:05:18 PM
I just want to thank John, Dave and Diane for keeping us informed. We are not on sewer so our thoughts on that issue are of little value but it sure seems like IWD should be able to share the grants that they plan to pursue and the rules that state that the project must first be approved by rate payers. It seems as if there would be a lot of small communities who can’t afford such improvements to infrastructure. And it seems like there’s infrastructure money to be had.
Dawn Papaila
maryestroud
Jun 5, 2023, 10:25:17 PM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com
Yes, thank you to all who have been updating and sharing perspectives.
Regarding protest letters: if anyone would like assistance with word processing or printing, please feel free to email me off list marye…@gmail.com
Both are fairly easy for me and I’d be happy to help.
-Mary Stroud
idypunky
Jun 8, 2023, 7:19:12 AM
I’m on vacation and can’t type a letter very well on my phone. When are they due?
John Jacobs
Jun 8, 2023, 9:32:55 AM
Larryn-
Letters of Protest must be received on or before the Public Hearing meeting at the IWD Board Room at 6:00 pm, Wednesday, June 21. Hand delivery to the IWD office or on the evening of the Hearing is probably a better strategy, however they can be mailed to: Idyllwild Water District Attn: District Secretary PO Box 397 25945 Highway 243 Idyllwild, CA. 92549
Letters must be specifically formatted in the manner previously described, and must be received in physical form (paper), with an actual ink signature. Electronic versions (emailed or otherwise) will not be accepted.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
John Jacobs
Jun 15, 2023, 9:33:46 AM
A reminder: the deadline for submission of Letters of Protest for IWD’s water &/or sewer rate proposals is next Wednesday, June 21.
As has been discussed and described in IWD’s Notice of Public Hearing (sent by mail about a month ago), these proposals will result in dramatic rate increases. By the time both of these plans are fully implemented, water costs will be roughly double the current rates, and the base rate for sewer will nearly triple in cost. These are likely the most dramatic cost increases in the history of IWD, and will place IWD water and sewer rates far above any comparable service anywhere in the local area and Inland Empire.
The IWD Board of Directors will meet at 6 pm on June 21 to review any objections to this plan, and make a final decision on implementation. If you (or any other neighbor using IWD services) have a strong opinion about either of these plans, the opportunity to voice them and potentially impact the implementation is quickly drawing to a close- after this meeting, these rates will become permanent!
Guidance on how to create a Letter of Protest that will be accepted by IWD is described in the attached form, along with an electronic form that can be completed. Alternatively, a blank form is available from either Dave Hunt or myself that can be used to simply hand write the letter. Please forward this email to any neighbor or community member who utilizes IWD’s services.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Yesterday afternoon around 4:30 pm, I was chatting with a neighbor while shoveling snow from the driveway- both of us had our dogs with us as we talked. A large, grey 4×4 truck came down Pine Crest traveling too fast for conditions, and drifted into the snowbank in front my home, then crossing the Sandrini driveway and impacting a snowbank against a large tree.
The young woman immediately tried to reverse the truck, gunning the engine and spinning the tires. I approached the truck, and she got out- the smell of marijuana was very strong. She was very agitated, and immediately said ‘I’m a local!’ (to which I replied if you are a local, you should know how tired locals are of this kind of behavior). She and the passenger then tried digging out the rear tires with bare hands and kicking the snow. I told her to carefully…slowly…rock the truck back and forth to dislodge it. She got in the truck, and both her and the passenger started rocking side to side….I clarified that’s not exactly what I meant…forward and back, instead. (This actually happened.) She eventually freed the truck, then drove off. Within two minutes, the truck was seen at the home at far end of Pine Crest, next to Idyllwild Pines.
No doubt this has become evident to all who live in the area, but our local neighborhood roads are very sketchy right now- narrow, icy in spots, and drivers that still drive too fast. Take great care while walking in the area, and pass the word along to other neighbors or pedestrians.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
Maygen (Morlan) Sandrini
Mar 5, 2023, 12:28:54 PM
Because no one and nothing was hurt this is kind of hilarious. 😂
Sent from my iPhone
kellyvisel
<
Mar 5, 2023, 1:26:29 PM
Your house sees too much action, John. Glad no one got hurt.
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize.
John Jacobs
Mar 5, 2023, 1:53:18 PM
You’re telling me, Kelly…this house sits front and center to a lot of Pine Crest drama. Not exactly something I considered when I bought the place many years ago…
It’s the regular pattern that’s so concerning- this is at least the third incident (that I’m aware of) where a car has drifted off the road and into my yard. As that truck approached, my immediate reaction was ‘that looks like all kinds of trouble’, and the next second it was plowing into the side of the road and into that tree/berm. That space in the driveway is where the Sandrinis have been parking their BMW lately- Tony arrived not 10 minutes afterward. Had the timing been just slightly different….
Apparently, that truck was seen pulled over in town this morning being written up by the Sheriff. It all fits the pattern…
But yeah, all of that aside, the amount of ridiculousness around this was pretty astoundingly hilarious. When she got out of that truck, it was like that scene in the old movie ‘Up In Smoke’….and I don’t think I’ll ever forget seeing them both sitting in the truck swaying from side to side, thinking this would actually do something to free the truck.
_________________________________ John Jacobs Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch Idyllwild, California 92549 888-522-9001 www.pinecrestwatch.org
