davahunt
Feb 13, 2023, 3:32:01 PM
to Pine Crest Watch, Miller, Anthony
Hi Anthony,
As I hiked the trails the other day, I noticed massive brush clearing that had taken place and huge slash piles everywhere! Many of the piles were very remote and would be very difficult to remove. What is the plan for these? If they remain, they will be more of a fire hazard than if the brush had simply been left in it’s natural state. In addition, the campground itself is being devastated by removal of live trees and bushes! Are the Manzanita that have been completely mowed down protected species? I’m not sure who is responsible for this ugly destruction, but the park has lost a great deal of it’s natural beauty. If it is being done in the name of fire mitigation, a much more efficient way to achieve this would be to ban all fires and BBQs permanently. Please fill us in on who is doing this, why it is being done and what the plan is for slash piles. Thanks!
Dave Hunt
Trails Volunteer
kyoshinvelez
Feb 13, 2023, 3:38:28 PM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info@googlegroups.com, Miller, Anthony
I hike several times a week in the county park, and live on Pinecrest avenue (and have owned the house there for 30+ years).
I would very much appreciate hearing the answers to the questions and observations posed here.
Perhaps a general meeting could be held to lend explanation to these questions.
Thank you in advance!
Valerie Velez
dawn.p…@gmail.com
Feb 13, 2023, 7:00:56 PM
I’ve very interested in hearing Anthony’s response to this question.
Dawn Papaila
Miller, Anthony
Feb 14, 2023, 9:51:43 AM
to Neighborhood Watch Notifications, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna
Good Morning,
Thank you for reaching out! Happy to help answer any questions.
This abatement is a part of the Red Hill Vegetation Management Program which has been ongoing for many years up here. Idyllwild Nature Center and Idyllwild Regional Park land fall under that program which is headed by Cal-Fire. In 2018 I was approached by Cal Fire representatives for a Right of Entry and I referred them to our Executive team and planning departments to review and work with them.
In the years prior to the work being performed Cal Fire headed up the planning, logistics, and funding for the project- including permits and approved scope for what kinds and how much vegetation to be removed. The work began late this fall around the Summit trail and Buckhorn camp, another partner who granted right of entry.
Similar work has been done throughout the rest of the mountain in various VMP’s over the years through Cal Fire, USFS, private property abatement, and our Fire Safe Council aids in coordinating those. One of note was performed 2 years prior to the Cranston Fire and was critical in protecting the Arts Campus and slowing the rate of spread and help save our town.
The work is not yet complete; They are continuing to cut, pile, and chip/remove piles. It is a large scale project with a grander scale and scope than our normal operations. The goal is not solely to mitigate risk from fire pits and BBQs, it is a broad vegetation management program aimed at reducing hazardous fuels, eliminating ladder fuels and raising canopies of trees.
It is no substitute for supervision-We are starting to complete new and improved camp host sites across the mountain to aid in improving supervision across the board. We continue our responsibility to be in lock-step with other agencies when they restrict fires in developed campgrounds so we do also.
I hope this helps explain the background and improves understanding of what is going on with the project.
| Anthony MillerPark Ranger Supervisor RivCoParks (Riverside County Regional Park and Open-Space District) 4600 Crestmore Road, Jurupa Valley, CA 92509anmi…@rivco.org | (951)-529-5620www.RivCoParks.org #RivCoParks | Facebook | Twitter | Upcoming Events | ||
davahunt
Feb 14, 2023, 1:29:18 PM
to Neighborhood Watch Notifications, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna
Thanks Anthony! But again, how are the piles that are all over the hillside in very remote locations going to be removed? They are more of a fire hazard as a dry pile than as a living tree or bush. Also, do you approve of what they are doing in the campground? It is quite puzzling that you are trying to plant new trees while they are cutting down perfectly healthy ones as well as destroying the natural beauty that the campers come for.
Miller, Anthony
Feb 14, 2023, 2:43:41 PM
to Neighborhood Watch Notifications, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Koeslag, Kalee
Per our contacts at Cal Fire on the project this is what he stated is the plan for the piles:
“Most of the piles will be masticated/chipped, but there will be some on terrain that is too steep/rocky for equipment that will be burned (after a season of curing, so ideally next winter). This week the crew has been unable to work due to weather but I think if we get some clear weather, it should be done in about 2 weeks, 4 weeks at the latest given the current plan. “
It is my understanding that these fuel break projects are critical to the safety of our community. The trees that are being removed are generally dead, dying, or diseased. Fuel break projects such as these do take healthy vegetation down- but of a calculated size and to a calculated concentration for healthy forest growth. Immature trees that are out-competed by larger, mature trees can become part of the ladder fuel problem.
Too much vegetation can be catastrophic in the event of a wildfire, and our land is long overdue for some thinning by a responsible agency.
Per the 2022 Cal Fire/Riverside County Fire plan (attached) the goal for our region is as follows:
San Jacinto Mountains
• Reforestation efforts will help restore forest species, stand structures and composition back to uneven‐aged mixed conifer.
• Reforestation efforts will aid preventing erosion and protect water quality.
• Shaded fuel breaks are a method of protecting communities from catastrophic fire by removing (Brush) ladder fuels while retaining larger mature trees.
• Generally, Height growth is a function of tree genetics and site quality, while diameter growth is a function of stand stocking or number of trees per area.
• Fire behavior is a function of fuel, weather, and topography. The amount and type of fuel can betreated so that catastrophic fire isreduced.
• An overall goal of 40‐80 Trees per Acre (TPA) is recommended, CAL FIRE staff are currently working to educate the public on the concept of Basal Area/Acre as the preferred method for determining stocking standards.
• Our goal is to manage the watershed to result in a healthier fire safe forest and chaparral ecosystem.
In 2016/2017 we received a donation of pine and oak trees to be planted in each of our parks. This is not a continuous effort on our part at Idyllwild given the density of trees you are correct it would make no sense. Our energies in that department are focused more on Hurkey Creek and McCall.
I understand there is confusion and concerns and I hope I shed some light on them. I would hope and expect the natural beauty of our forest to be retained at the conclusion of work such as this-as well as being a good example of a healthy, well-managed forest ecosystem.
2022-riverside-county-unit-fire-plan.pdf
| Anthony MillerPark Ranger Supervisor RivCoParks (Riverside County Regional Park and Open-Space District) 4600 Crestmore Road, Jurupa Valley, CA 92509anmi…@rivco.org | (951)-529-5620www.RivCoParks.org #RivCoParks | Facebook | Twitter | Upcoming Events | ||
John Jacobs
Feb 15, 2023, 9:43:49 AM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Koeslag, Kalee
Anthony-
Thank you for this detailed response. This is a project that has been long overdue- the areas on the slopes north of Idyllwild County Park and up near the Summit Trail have dangerously high levels of brush that clearly creates a significant wildfire threat to the adjacent residences in the area, and Idyllwild as a whole. I am sometimes dubious about the concept of ‘forest management’, and the judgment around how it is conducted, but there is no question that the areas that are being mitigated in this project need attention. My primary questions about this project are related to how it was planned and being executed & monitored, and addressing the aesthetic and recreational impacts it is creating.
One aspect of this project that has my attention is the western boundary, where the County Park property borders Camp Emerson. Idyllwild Fire Department has placed a large water tank at the top of the Summit Trail (on Buckhorn property), with hoses that extend downhill through this area. Word from a crewperson with IFD is that the plan is to burn the slash piles in this area, and conduct prescribed burning of the area on Emerson property. Will these burns also be part of the plan for Idyllwild County Park?
Within County Park proper, the aesthetic and recreational impacts are quite dramatic- the areas that AAA Tree Service have cleared have many ragged stobs of the brush and small trees that were cut, and the chipped/masticated remains cover everything. The tracks of heavy equipment that was used have created many deep ruts throughout the area, and damaged large sections of existing trails. Where the clearing efforts came up against private property, there are large amounts of debris in many areas (esp. along the Papaila residence on County Park Road). Will the plans to deal with the remaining slash piles also include addressing the visible ground scarring related to the heavy equipment? What are the plans to repair the trails that have been damaged?
_________________________________
John Jacobs
Pine Crest – Riverside County Playground Rd. Neighborhood Watch
Idyllwild, California 92549
888-522-9001
www.pinecrestwatch.org
dawn.p…@gmail.com
Feb 16, 2023, 10:45:19 AM
to Neighborhood Watch Notifications, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Koeslag, Kalee
Thank you, John, for this message. We are concerned about the piles behind our property AND we need to ensure that their removal is done in a way that doesn’t damage our land in the process. My husband has spent years terracing the property to reduce erosion and ensure proper drainage around and underneath our house. So, we must be involved in any decisions that involve dragging equipment or material through our yard.
Dawn Papaila
Miller, Anthony
Feb 16, 2023, 11:01:07 AM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Koeslag, Kalee
Hey John,
The word on pile burning from Cal-Fire was as follows:
“Most of the piles will be masticated/chipped, but there will be some on terrain that is too steep/rocky for equipment that will be burned (after a season of curing, so ideally next winter). This week the crew has been unable to work due to weather but I think if we get some clear weather, it should be done in about 2 weeks, 4 weeks at the latest given the current plan. “
Chipped and masticated debris are generally left as ground cover and will decompose naturally and return nutrients to soil over time. The goal of the mastication is to reduce ladder fuels and create a gap between fuels on the forest floor and in the crowns of trees. I agree, many of the stumps of trees and bushes removed will need to be ground down further particularly along trails, recreational areas, and between campsites and road edges to mitigate aesthetic and recreational impacts. This will be done in time.
Our trail work we put on hold this Winter and will need to resume when weather clears and will be an ongoing effort to repair sections, install delineators/diversions to keep from cutting into private property or off trail. The work performed is not artfully done and it is my expectation that our staff will have to do some of the detail work and repairs with our team, the Adopt a Trail Crews, and/or any volunteer days events if there are any interested persons in volunteering with us.
If there are any private property concerns I invite the property owners to send me some pictures and/or we can set up a meeting in the near future to discuss areas of concern and how we can mitigate those concerns vs. letting the problems fester. Some meetings may identify areas that will be Parks’ responsibility to mitigate and others may simply be educational and understanding the work performed.
Please do allow some grace with me in scheduling these I will be out on bereavement for a week or so any day now, so my responses to those calls may not be immediate. My out of office reply will pop up and I will respond as soon as I am back in that event.
| Anthony MillerPark Ranger Supervisor RivCoParks (Riverside County Regional Park and Open-Space District) 4600 Crestmore Road, Jurupa Valley, CA 92509anmi…@rivco.org | (951)-529-5620www.RivCoParks.org #RivCoParks | Facebook | Twitter | Upcoming Events | ||
kyoshinvelez
Feb 16, 2023, 11:13:42 AM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Koeslag, Kalee
Dear all,
I really appreciate the whole conversation around this project, which I have observed as a resident and local hiker, but been uneducated and concerned, especially, as John pointed out, as to the level of restoration that is planned after the clearing and fire abatement is considered complete.
I have hiked, run and walked these trails and through the campground innumerable times in my 35 years of owning a home on Pinecrest Avenue, and am very hopeful and invested in the best possible outcome for the park and campground, grom fire safety, trail access and esthetic perspectives.
Please keep me in the loop, and I am very grateful that this information stream has been opened up.
Valerie Velez
Jacob Booher
Feb 16, 2023, 1:22:56 PM
to pc-rcpr-neighborhood-watch-info, Narvaez, Robert, McLain, Dustin, Whitaker, Dayna, Koeslag, Kalee
Neighbors,
This fire abatement project is critical to the safety of our neighborhood and the town overall, so I’m glad it’s happening. But I’m very disappointed that we, the affected community, seem to have been left in the dark about it.
We should not have had to stumble upon the gruesome-looking outcome of the project to learn about it; we should have been apprised of the project in advance and told what to expect of it. We should not have to ask for essentially after-the-fact explanations of why and how the project is being implemented; we should have already been provided Cal Fire’s documents summarizing the dire need for the project and explaining why the abatement approach Cal Fire picked is the best one feasible, taking into account the unique environmental, recreational, and cultural resources of the park. Those documents should detail how the project’s negative impacts on the park and its neighbors would be minimized or mitigated.
In December I submitted a Public Records Act request to Cal Fire asking for all planning and environmental compliance documents associated with this project. Cal Fire has yet to produce any documents to me. Assuming I receive records, I’ll be happy to share them.
Sincerely,
Jacob